exactly. That was pretty funny as well.

I think Frankie is one of the best written characters in the show. She's very realistic but still fits in with the cast. And her moments tend to be the best in any given episode. :)

Which is why I hope the next Frankie episode ends with her actually having a happy ending, instead of being mistreated and/or having an annoying cheat twist for an ending.

Not necessarily true. It's happened to Mac, Bloo, and others. :P

I think that depressing endings are somtimes better than happy ones. If Foster's ended "and they lived happily ever after" every single episode, I don't think I would like it as much as I do. Life isn't always easy and smooth, and in order for life to seem realistic, there has to be ups and downs.

perhaps. But the "depressing" (I'd use "imperfect" or "twist" instead) endings are not entertaining simply because someone got the short end of the stick. They are entertaining because of who got hosed, how they react, and who is doing the hosing. It's all subjective as to what folks find funny when someone gets hosed, of course.
I found "Busted" entertaining because, even though Frankie got the short end of the stick, her increasingly frustrated reactions to Herriman's silly rules were funny. Or her reaction to the discovery that Bloo and crew have been responsible for a lot of the messes that she has to clean up, "Guys, this isn't cool." (it's so calm compared to how she reacts to Herriman, funny). Also, there's some percieved justice at the end as Frankie chases Herriman around with a broom.

Or rather, "Imposter's" wasn't very entertaining, outside of a few incidents, because Frankie got the short end of the stick at the hands of a jerk. It wasn't funny that she missed her concert because she ran into rude imaginary friend that disguised his primary imaginary attribute. Frankly, I think it would be tough to make a situation where Frankie is unable to take her deserved time off entertaining.

Maybe I think too much about this...

I do agree, though it doesn't always work that way. I, for one, do not wish for every episode to have happy endings (except when the show ends, of course ;) ), and that's the case for this show.

What you said makes plenty of sense to me.

To me as well. "Busted" was funny; "Imposter's" was hurtful. :(

That is true. But I guess they've done such a good job writing her character that some(Like me) form an attachment that goes way beyond what is expected of characters in a children's cartoon.

But seriously, I have NO problem with gags and funny bits at Frankie's expense--I loved the smear song in "Setting A President"(Though I've personally rewritten it to praise her and attack Herriman :P )--and I don't mind seeing her misery played for laughs as long as she gets some measure of vengeance or catharsis in the end, like in "Busted" and "Crime After Crime".

ok, good. Sometimes I'll get to typing a thought and it comes out less understandable than I'd like.

I agree with you that the show doesn't need to be happy-go-lucky, but it does need to be entertaining. If the writers want to torture the characters, at least make me laugh in the process.

Hey, I think they're trying. We can't expect them to get every episode right, you know. Even the best shows have a few "lemons" or "duds" every now and then.

I didn't know we had a kissing Frankie icon = :-*

It's a tribute to the writers, animators, and Grey DeLisle; that they've created a character in Frankie that fans are able to care about, to whatever extent.

It's also an obstacle to overcome, as they have to be careful how they use her in the show.

In any event, the Foster's crew has done a great job making her a very human character (a very believable one). I appreciate that in a cartoon.

Yeah, that's true. I know they are trying, but I hold the show to such a high standard because I know they can do so well.

and I thought that icon was Frankie whistling, but now that you mention it.

A lot of the fans, anyway. There are, unfortunately, some people who have no regard for her at all. Some of the garbage posted as "stories" on ff.net and other sites proves it. The rest of the characters get attacked there, too. It's enough to make me want to cry sometimes. :(

Those people who write trash about Foster's on ff.net -- do they call themselves fans? And if they don't, then why do they want to destroy something that many other people love? Can't they just leave it be?

They can call themselves whatever they want, but they're not fans. A true fan doesn't treat the characters he or she claims to care about in that manner, be it torturing them, forcing then into relationships that would never happen, whatever, it's not the actions of a fan. I certainly don't do such things with my Foster's Sims; I do everything I can to make them happy and I don't interfere with their lives any more than the game requires. It doesn't say much about a person when they get their kicks from tormenting cartoon characters. It really ticks me off.

never been to ff.net, so I'm not sure exactly what y'all are talking about. I would hope that people have better things to do than write disturbing stories using characters that other people created, I probably hope too much...

You don't want to go there. Trust me.

Okay. Once in a while, there's a good story, but you can't tell if it's good or bad just by reading the title or the summary. So it's best to stay away from ff.net altogether.

"To whatever extent" is very right. There are many casual fans who don't care at all about who gets shafted and whether or not it was justified, as they view it a light and silly kids cartoon and want to enjoy it on that level(I have nothing against them, BTW).

But a diehard fan like me, somebody who deeply sympathizes with Frankie, and often wonders about unanswered aspects of her background and history(Her parents, etc) which will probably never be answered as they'd be a little too dramatic for the show(Unless they give her a movie like they are about to do with Wilt)... it greatly affects how I view her, and how I react to the things that happens to her, good and bad.

Let's just say it's been a LONG time since I've become as attached to a fictional character as I am with Frankie. There are a few others, but just a very few. And Frankie's become one of them.

then that's what I'll do. I don't look at much fan-fiction anyway.

One thing that really bothers me is that she doesn't seem to get any credit for the enormous amount of work she does in that house, not from the residents or the fans. The only "thank you" I recall her ever getting came, ironically, from Goofball. It's been suggested, loudly, that without Wilt's help, she'd collapse from stress. What a slap in the face. I think she's a little stronger, and a little more dedicated, than that. Let her take a week's vacation, we'll see what kind of shape Bloo & co. have the house reduced to by the time she gets back.

Good post.
Even though fans care about Frankie (or whomever) to varrying extents, it says something (good) about the group that makes the show when someone can care about Frankie to the extent that you do.

As I said before, she's a very human character, one you could believe was real in many ways. Makes it easy for me to sympathize with her during her troubles or during her moments in the sun. As a veiwer, I don't want to see her get the short end of the stick, because she doesn't "deserve" it. Happens all the time in real life.

That said, it can be funny to see her stressed out and it can be funny to see her come out on the bottom (while dealing with Bloo's antics, or Herriman's demands, etc.). Her reactions, the situation she's in and the like make that entertaining. Like in "Busted", when she argues with Mr. Herriman over why the proper mop for cleaning the kitchen is stored on the third floor. Absurd situation and an expected but funny reaction. Same with the toilet paper business in the same episode. Even in the much-maligned "Imposter's" she carries on a pretty funny exchange with Goofball; "They have phones in Canada, don't they?"

I'm a bit curious about her parents, and the like, but the show isn't all about her and some aspects of her life just might not be entertaining.
The most I can deduce is that her father is Madame Foster's son, by indication of her last name. I'm sure that's common knowledge around here though. I don't think revealing her past would be too dramatic, unless her parents are dead or something. I always considered them absent for the convenience of the show.

But, yeah, Frankie's a good character. Entertaining whether she wins or not, or when she's just an accessory character in an episode. She's one of my all-time favorite cartoons, up there with Scrooge McDuck.

Didn't know Wilt was going to get his own movie, fun stuff.

Yeah why did they choose to really bash Frankie in Imposter's? Did the writers dislike her? LOL
Then again, you have to admit that episode has some really funny parts, like the whole sandwich ordeal.
(I'll paraphrase...)

"You got some bread in there?"
"Yeah..." ::Frankie shows him the bread::
"And some peanut butter?"
"YEAH."
"And some jelly?"
:GROWL:
"Great, so do you think you could, you know, fashion all that into a sandwich?"

LOL, I was cracking up. That WAS funny.

;D

Well, there were moments like that which made me crack up, when I originally saw the episode--and thus I didn't know how it would end. I was only starting to watch the series at the time and, not knowing better, was expecting a happy and pleasant ending.

Compare that sandwich gag to the smear song in "Setting A President", another funny-at-first-glance gag at the expense of Frankie.

The difference here, at least to me: since Frankie won the election and actually came out on top in "President", I could enjoy all the gags at her expense even more on repeat viewings, and wound up loving the song. On the other hand, because "Imposter's" ended on such an extremely low note for her, I find absolutely none of it funny in retrospect, and the sandwich bit completely loses any charm it initially had on me.

EDIT: HOWEVER, I need to make another thing clear about her. I have absolutely no problem with less-than-pleasant things happening to her, if she deserves it for doing something wrong and as long as it's done in a silly and funny way. I loved her cookie addiction and aftermath in "Cookie Dough".

She shows up in the yearly photos around number 4 as a small child, and is in every one after that. So she might have been living at Foster's most of her life.

On that, I gotta say something in regards to the episode "Bloooo". I get the impression that alot of people consider that episode to be anti-Frankie and that it gives her a "non funny" treatment that ends poorly like in "Make'em up pals". I think that's crap to be honest.

"Bloooo" doesn't treat Frankie any worse then the other characters were treated, why you ask, because this was designed as a "horror" episode. Frankie was played off as the typical teen girl being stalked by a killer, and I actually thought her running around scared thing really helped the episode.

It gave off a good Halloween vibe and it wasn't a direct bash at her in any way, same with "Cookie Dough". Her obsession with cookies was used as a sub-plot, just like her role in "Bloooo". It was just there to help the show move along, and not in any way try to negatively portray her character.

I mean come on, how can you not find a 22 year old girl going bannanas over cookies and porking on them like there's no tomorrow in a kid's TV show? I do agree though that "Make'em up Pals" was completely negative and was just one Frankie bash joke after the next. She was really thrashed in that one.

Btw, another thing I loved about "Bloooo", this line says it all:

Wilt: All right now it's REALLY sucking!

Nuff said.

I don't see how any episode of Foster's is "anti-Frankie". The writers play her stress, fear, anger, etc. for entertainment value. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I didn't think it worked in "Blooooo". Her treatment wasn't funny (to me) and it didn't end particularly well for her (just like it did in "Imposter's"). I just don't see the entertainment value of it.

Agreed that it doesn't treat her worse than the other characters, or worse than she has been treated in other episodes. "Blooooo" may have been designed as a horror episode (as horrific as TV-PG can get, I suppose), but it plays the horror for laughs with the other characters. I can see where putting Frankie in a stereotypical horror role can be funny to some folks, not me though. I saw her running around scared as a device to set up the ending joke. That joke just seemed stupid to me, after all that setup. (Like the ending joke in "Imposter's")

But hey, opions are like fingers, most people have 10. I got caught out in a thunderstorm the night "Blooooo" premiered, so I'll readily admit that may have soured me on the episode.

Well episodes may not be anti anything, but a message is certainly stamped in and it can be a bad message for a certain character. "Bloooo" didn't really have anywhere near the negativity or backlash to Frankie like it did in "Make'em up pals".

The big difference is the plot point. Frankie was "always right" in the Imposter's story, and that was the whole idea here, that she was right and never wrong and for once, she couldn't believe no one else saw through Goofball's act.

"Bloooo" was designed to be a parody, now funny doesn't always mean "ha ha", it can be more of an inside joke that isn't designed to make you laugh. The episode was made just to be a parody of horror movies and a couple other things.

Wilt and the others chasing Bloo around was alot like ghostbusters (aside the obvious reference), and this even reminded me of that time Mickey, Goofy, and Donald were chasing ghosts and they ended up looking like ghosts with the tar and white flower bit.

In the end, Frankie was scared out of her mind just for the sake of the horror parody and not to leave her on a sour note. "Make'em up pals" whole message was that Frankie was wrong and everyone was ignoring her left and right and disregarding anything that was important to her.

Just like in "Infernal Slumber" how Mac is going nuts trying to keep his mom asleep, but in the end, everyone's antics was just a means of adding to the parody or crazyness of the episode, not to leave Mac on a sour or bad note.

I felt bad for Mac but after seeing how hard the other friends tried to keep Terrence quiet (even Cheese), that made me feel good because it shows as much as they enjoy having fun and acting crazy, they knew in the long run it was important to Mac.

Frankie just had a case of mistaken identity in "Bloooo" much like Bloo had with Pockets in "Bloo did it". The difference is that the whole mistaken identity issue wasn't as heavily enduced into the plot in "Blooo" like it was with "Bloo did it" and "Make'em up pals".

Whew....hope that helps.

It does help, Mr. M. I had not though of the episode quite like that, so your take on it is certainly very interesting.

Inside joke or laugh-out-loud joke, a parody should be entertaining. I got the parody in "BlHowever, Frankie was simply put in the stereotypical situation of a teen girl in a horror movie. Such movies weren't really spoofed by this, just mimiced. Just putting Frankie in a stereotypical role isn't enough to make such a parody entertaining, she has to be herself while in the role to do that. (like when she's banging on the door, that's entertaining, because it's Frankie acting like Frankie, not a stereotype). Now, I usually laugh at inside jokes, when I get them. I got the joke with Frankie, but it wasn't funny.

Ultimately, I just don't see how it is fun to watch Frankie get locked out in the rain, scared half to death, and eventually faint. I just wind up feeling bad for her, worse after the stalking scary fellow is revealed. She had a bad night for no reason, and didn't generate any funny reactions or expressions in the process. Seems like a pretty sour way to exit the episode to me.

"Imposter's" has a different message than "Blooooo", sure. But with me, it all goes back to entertainment value, not message, because Foster's never really tries to send a strong and important message.
Way I see it, it is not any more fun to see Frankie locked out in a thunderstorm than it is to see her mistreated and disrespected by a jerk. Now, Frankie's reactions in either of these situations can make them entertaining (and both episodes had funny parts due to that, just not enough of them), but neither situation itself is entertaining.

Where "Blooooo" comes up short is making Frankie's bad day entertaining. Watching it, I just think to myself "that just stinks, she didn't deserve that." I pretty much think that when veiwing "Imposter's" as well. Either some percieved justice at the end, or some funny reactions and jokes in the middle of these situations would make them much more palatable.

I don't think "Blooooo" was meant to give Frankie a hard time intentionaly. It was just to parody the horror genre as others have said. I found her moments in that episode to be the funnyest of them all. If anything, it shows how loveing she is to Mac and everyone else. And it certainly dosent make Wilt look too bright. Who would throw keys OUTSIDE the house after locking it?8D

I understand, Frankie didn't really do anything deserving to get that rotten day but then again, neither did Mac when everyone came over for the slumber party for "Infernal Slumber". Or Mac ignoring Bloo in "Challenge of the superfriends".

But then again, we have to remember that this is all part of the show. As much as I like Frankie, I can't always have her being perfect and never have a rotten day even when she didn't deserve to have one, the fact of the matter is, things have to happen.

Just because she didn't deserve it doesn't mean it's a form of picking on her, Mac doesn't deserve to be picked on by Terrence but we need it as a form of balance. If you ask me, I'd rather have Frankie getting scared witless by her fake stalker then not having her involved at all.

I also don't think the episode could have worked her into the plot in any other way. The episode needed Wilt, Coco, and Ed alone to chase around Bloo and having Frankie inside wouldn't be that fun because she would have recognized Bloo on the spot.

In the end I think it's just a matter of variety that puts our characters in good and bad situations. For example, I hated how they picked on Ben in Ben10 half the time and treated him like an idiot. But at times they need to do that to make conflict, and to make things interesting for the situation.

Frankie doesn't get appreciated as much as she should, we all know that, and we all know Bloo has goodness in him though it is buried deep, deep, deep, DEEP underneath. But sometimes we need to see them go through a nightmare or two just to have variety.

I didn't feel bad for Frankie because in honesty, she did overeact. As scary as things looked she freaked out before she thought things out. Plus, I know Frankie is a sweet person at heart and even when she gets screwed like in "Imposter's", she rolls with the punches.

I imagine if they showed her afterwards she would have laughed at seeing how she wigged out over nothing, much as she admitted her mistake in "Imposter's" and apologized to Goofball. That's mainly why I also like Frankie, she doesn't hold grudges or dwell on things for long and she's mostly pretty positive.

"Bloooo" wasn't my favorite episode, but the whole "Frankie scared witless" thing didn't really bother me much. The episode was just a spoof of the horror movie genre, that's all. I left it at that.

True, but we aren't talking about those episodes.
Frankie getting treated undeservingly wasn't my beef with "Blooooo", its lack of humor in the situation was.

I'm not saying her life should be perfect, I'm saying it should be entertaining. Frankie simply screaming and falling in the mud is not. It's what frames that situation that can make it entertaining. Of course, entertainment value is subjective, but do you see where I'm coming from with this?

It is a form of "picking on" her, per se, used to drive the plot and create entertainment. The writers do it all the time, and it works most of the time. They didn't do so well in "Blooooo's" case.

If they can't entertainingly work her into a plot, then they don't need to include her in the episode. It is not as if she has to have a role in every episode.

Agree, I'm not sure where I've said any different.

Variety is pointless unless it can be enjoyed.

Fair enough; but her overreaction wasn't entertaining (and it darn well could have been) largely because there was no indication that she didn't have every right to be scared until the end.
Wilt, Coco, and Ed getting scared by a sick Bloo was funny because you knew they shouldn't have been scared.
You do find out that Frankie shouldn't have been scared at the show's end, and that too could be funny. Problem is, there is too much of Frankie getting scared in the episode to pull that off. The ending joke would have been pretty funny if it involved Frankie getting scared for a much shorter amount of time, say a 3 minute scene, and being able to react to her misconception.
Similarly, I think the running gag in "Imposter's" would be funny if it was shorter. That way Goofball's behavior wouldn't have worn out it's short welcome.
Of course, you can't build episodes around shorter gags like that.

and that would have made the episode much, much better. Her reacting to how wrong her presumptions were and interacting with other characters about it would have been great.
Imagine if "Imposter's" ended with Goofball revealing he was an imaginary friend and without Frankie's reaction to it. I think that would make the episode considerably worse. Frankie simply being wrong is not funny all by itself.

And really, what irritated me about "Imposter's" more than anything else was that I figured out the ending long before it happened.
The writers tried too hard to convince the audience that Goofball was a human. They just kept reinforcing the idea so much that I thought "there's no way Goofball is what he seems to be."
Once I had figured out what was going to ultimately happen, Goofball stressing out Frankie became boring and annoying.

Also irritating was the loose end they never tied up, Goofball's homework. They explained how he wound up at Fosters, why he had a football jersey, even vaugely why he had human friends. But why would an imaginary friend have homework? Another instance of the writers trying too hard...

Well again just to wrap up most of the things you said, everything is in perspectives and some things don't need to be funny. How you feel is how you feel, and same to me.

I felt Frankie wasn't really picked on that badly and I do feel she was necessary be it funny or unfunny, I liked the balance of watching what was happening to Frankie and the others.

Not every episode will be super funny either. And that has to do with a person's tastes, the type of humor being used, and of course the writer's effort into making the joke worth wild. Variety can be entertaining, it's just a matter of what you find enteraining or not.

One man's trash and all that jazz. But I don't want to turn this into a fight and I don't wanna pick apart your words, nor do I think you want to pick apart mine. So in the end I think "Blooo" may not have been the funniest moment in Frankie's life, I still stand by my belief that it was picking on her.

But that's my opinion and I don't mean it disrespectfully to you billy or anyone else.

I understand you meant no disrespect. I hope you don't think I had any intent of turning the discussion into a fight (I have no intentions of disrespect, either). I've enjoyed the discussion and seeing your perspective on the episode. I only want you to understand why I view the episode as I do, and I hope I understand why you feel differently (if you don't think I do, then please explain further). That's what message boards are for, in theory.

Now, I'm not saying that every moment of the episode has to be funny, but ideally, every moment of an episode should be entertaining. I just want to enjoy what I'm watching, whether I enjoy the show because of a joke, a facial expression, a character that looks cool, an interesting situation, or whatever.

"Blooooo" was difficult to enjoy, and if I don't enjoy watching it, then why am I watching it?

Well then don't watch it, I mean it's usually as simple as that but you know what i mean. I guess the reason i don't find it difficult to watch even though I love Frankie is the fact that i have this habit of trying to find the good in everything I do.

Even when I see movies I know I disliked or was upset over, I always end up trying to find the good things about it rather then the bad things. Very rarely do I ever come up to an episode or movie that I have actual difficulty watching such in the case of Foster's.

The only episode I REALLY can't stand to watch is "Duchess of Wails" because I hate how it treats Mac towards the end. "Imposters" I can take with a grain of salt, but not many times mind you. Other then that, I'm usually easy going and acceptable of almost anything I see. So maybe that's why I feel this way about "Bloooo".

Now that's a good thought. I can see where you are coming from, or at least I think I can.

I certainly didn't let my disatisfaction with much of "Blooooo" keep me from laughing at the funny parts ("cannonball ghost" hehehehehehe). I'll applaud the Foster's crew for the good parts of any episode, but I see no reason not to express my dissatisfaction with other parts.

Foster's a great show, and when I see a Foster's episode that isn't very entertaining I feel compelled to say so. I'll give them credit for the things they did well in such an episode, but I'll also comment on what they could have done better. They can do and have done much better than they did with "Blooooo"; when they come up short I want them to do better. I don't want to stop watching the show when I know that the folks who make it are capable of making it something I'd watch over anything else.

Now, you mention "Duchess of Wails" and how you didn't like the way Mac was treated toward the end. Are you refering to him getting pelted with fruits and vegetables or him having to wake up Duchess every morning?
I think that episode can provoke some very interesting discussion.

Primarily at the end when he was being pelted.

Waking up with Duchess is more like a comic gag idea, where I found the ending to be well...depressing.

It's just hard to watch someone go through with that. With Frankie in "Bloooo" she could have saved her self a world of grief if she calmed down and looked at things rationally.