A Perfect Example of How Irrational Fear/Stupidity Kills Innocent People

[pitbulllady]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292168,00.html

A five-year-old child is dead, thanks to an idiot cop discharging a firearm before engaging his BRAIN, all because of an irrational, pointless fear that should have been left in the Middle Ages! Venomous snakes in North America seldom climb trees, so it's pretty much a given that the snake was harmless and posed absolutely no threat to anyone whatsoever, but the cop would rather try to be a hero and kill this "evil monster" to save lives...and wound up killing a child while the kid's grandfather watched helplessly. Poor old guy-they showed him on tv and he blames himself for taking his grandson fishing, something that grandfathers have been doing for ages. This is a perfect example of how deadly stupidity can be, but it's sad that the victims who pay the biggest price, the kid and the snake, aren't even the ones who were being stupid. I hope this cop does hard time for this, and never is allowed to carry a gun for the rest of his life, and as part of his parole he should be made to work at the nearest zoo's reptile house, educating the public on the idiocy of reptile phobias/hatred.

pitbulllady

[Imaginary Light]

That's just terrible. It's so sad to think that an innocent "fun" day of fishing can turn into such a mess:( My heart goes out to this boy's family.

[Medikor]

It is indeed a sad story. You would think that the officer would have called in animal control to deal with the snake.

[pitbulllady]

I don't see the point in calling ANYBODY to deal with a harmless wild animal that is in its natural habitat, not bothering anyone or posing a threat to anyone. It would be like calling out a police officer or animal control officer to get rid of a native bird perched up in the tree. It's not like any people lived up in that tree. That's where the stupidity part comes in; so many people just automically assume if it's a snake, it HAS to be dangerous, and out to get every last human on the planet. If someone had called out the police because they saw a Bluejay in the tree, or a squirrel, or even a raccoon in broad daylight, they probably would have been cited for tying up the emergency 991 system with a useless call. That sort of fear is totally irrational and inexcusable. Like I said, in this day and age of information, with people like the late Steve Irwin dedicating their lives to educate people about animals like snakes, there is no excuse whatsoever for any person to react in such a way to the mere presence of a snake in a tree that they would wind up killing another person, and this sort of thing belongs in the Middle Ages, along with burning people at the stake for suggesting that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around.

pitbulllady

[kageri]

The thing that disturbs me is that not only did they apparently have nothing to do but shoot snakes that are just chillaxin in trees, but there's also a cop out there who has such bad aim with a gun that they shot a toddler while aiming for a snake in a tree. There needs to be a mandatory I.Q. and vision test in order for people to be allowed anywhere near firearms.

[pitbulllady]

The thing that disturbs me is that not only did they apparently have nothing to do but shoot snakes that are just chillaxin in trees, but there's also a cop out there who has such bad aim with a gun that they shot a toddler while aiming for a snake in a tree. There needs to be a mandatory I.Q. and vision test in order for people to be allowed anywhere near firearms.


The grandfather specified that he SAW the first bullet hit the water, then the second one hit his grandson, so you have to question, HOW this could have happened if the snake was up a tree! The only thing I can think of is that the cop was standing on a raised bank around the pond or lake, on the opposite shore from the grandfather and kid, and trying to shoot a snake in a tree that was growing out over the water, at a level below the bank. There have been other incidents of cops shooting at animals and either injuring people or damaging things like cars, when they really shouldn't have been shooting at the animal in the first place, since it was not posing a threat. Police officers are supposed to not only take IQ tests, but also psychological exams, but I guess a lot of 'em slip through the cracks in the system. ANY law enforcement officer, including police, should be trained to know if there are venomous snakes in their area, and how to recognize them(something a third-grader can learn), and how to respond when there is a genuine risk to human lives, rather than BEING a risk to human lives through their ineptitude. This is actually mandatory for military personel; they receive training in safely dealing with venomous/dangerous wildliife both where they undergo basic training, and in the areas to which they are deployed. Every branch of the military emphasizes leaving the animal alone whenever possible.

This isn't the only case involving a human shooting because of fear of snakes. Last week in South Carolina, a retired state trooper accidentally shot and killed HIMSELF after using a shotgun to kill a "Water Moccasin"; he'd spoken with a buddy via cell phone as he was going to kill the snake, which he also said was in a tree(Water Moccasins do NOT climb trees), and apparently as he was trying to put the loaded gun back in the gun rack, it discharged, killing him. That makes two people dead due to a total lack of common sense, both over an animal that could not have harmed anyone in the first place.

pitbulllady

[Ub3rD4n]

Well, seems to me this occurence was sad, cause the cop was just trying to help those people and ended up shooting them (poor decision making, even if the snake was venemous, which he beleived it to be). Now, I may be from a country devoid of snakes, but it seems to me to be an easy mistake to make, not knowing that venomous snakes aren't tree climbers, but the guy should have been more careful. Snakes often don't attack until something moves, so he could have gotten closer or circled around for a better shot......

So, yeah, I don't think the guy was dumb, just a little too trigger-happy, especially for being the bad shot he was. I don't think it had much to do with irrational fear, though a deep-seated fear of snakes is ingrained into humanity from since before it existed, the guy just shot too soon and too poorly.

[pitbulllady]

Well, seems to me this occurence was sad, cause the cop was just trying to help those people and ended up shooting them (poor decision making, even if the snake was venemous, which he beleived it to be). Now, I may be from a country devoid of snakes, but it seems to me to be an easy mistake to make, not knowing that venomous snakes aren't tree climbers, but the guy should have been more careful. Snakes often don't attack until something moves, so he could have gotten closer or circled around for a better shot......

So, yeah, I don't think the guy was dumb, just a little too trigger-happy, especially for being the bad shot he was. I don't think it had much to do with irrational fear, though a deep-seated fear of snakes is ingrained into humanity from since before it existed, the guy just shot too soon and too poorly.


Humans have been scientifically proven NOT to have a "deep-seated" or instinctual fear of snakes. That fear is entirely learned behavior. The cop had not been called by the grandfather of the dead child, but apparently by someone else who had spotted the snake in the tree. Venomous or not, it's not going to hurt anyone unless they climb the freakin' tree! Snakes do not "attack" people; their biting is defensive behavior that is only used when someone is directly making contact with the snake. A snake is not going to come down from the perceived safety of a tree if there are large, dangerous animals-or humans-on the ground below. It's not going to go after anyone. I realize that a lot of people don't know that, but whose fault is that? It surely isn't due to lack of education, whether on tv or the internet or books. People who live where they are likely to encounter wild animals should be under obligation to learn about those animals, how they act, what their "triggers" are, and how to identify venomous from non-venomous when it comes to snakes. It's ironic that while I am typing this, "Inside Edition" just ran a story of a cop who pulled a young woman over, when her father was having a heart attack. The cop actually pulled his gun on her, yanked her from the car, and cuffed her, while she pleaded with him to let her get to the hospital where her father was being taken. The cop was threatening to shoot her, even though she was not armed, or threatening him in any way. We're supposed to trust and count on these people, but it seems that more and more nut-cases are slipping through the cracks and winding up on police forces.

pitbulllady

[kageri]

It's ironic that while I am typing this, "Inside Edition" just ran a story of a cop who pulled a young woman over, when her father was having a heart attack. The cop actually pulled his gun on her, yanked her from the car, and cuffed her, while she pleaded with him to let her get to the hospital where her father was being taken. The cop was threatening to shoot her, even though she was not armed, or threatening him in any way. We're supposed to trust and count on these people, but it seems that more and more nut-cases are slipping through the cracks and winding up on police forces.

pitbulllady

...........WHY?!? Was she speeding to get there or something?! I just... I don't know why I'm even trying to find a reason here, there is nothing that would justify that. Nothing.

[pitbulllady]

...........WHY?!? Was she speeding to get there or something?! I just... I don't know why I'm even trying to find a reason here, there is nothing that would justify that. Nothing.

Yes, she was speeding, AND she did have her emergency flashers on, as was clearly seen in the video taken from the cop's own car. That is supposed to be a signal to law enforcement that there is a genuine emergency and if anything, they are supposed to ESCORT the person to a hospital, not stop them! When the sobbing woman begged the cop to let her go, and kept telling him that her father was being taken to the hospital with a heart attack, he told her, "Well, he won't get to see you acting so stupid, will he?" He was on tape in a later interview with a judge stating that he did not believe the woman's story, and felt perfectly justified in drawing his gun on her!

He was placed on "suspension" for FIVE DAYS.

pitbulllady

[HappyFoppy]

Whooooa...

Can't believe things like that happen. The cop dude better goes to jail or something.

For a looooong time. :D

[Ub3rD4n]

Wait, wait...humans have been proven to NOT have a fear of snakes? Not that I'm calling you a liar, but mind if I ask where you found that? Just seems kinda weird, seeing as everyone I know is a little scared of them despite never having any real contact with them. In fact, as far as I know, the people with contact with snakes are LESS likely to be afraid, cause most snakes are harmless to humans and so holding, seeing etc them helps people to realise that.

[Partymember]

In clear violation of one of the 4 Rules of Shooting: "Know your target and what is behind it."

But i'm not surprised, cops feel that a gun and a badge makes them God. I hate cops so very much. And PBL i saw that story where the pig pulled over that lady. He used some SERIOUS force, and on a WOMAN! If he had tried that crap with me i would've killed his sorry ass without a second thought.

[kageri]

Wait, wait...humans have been proven to NOT have a fear of snakes? Not that I'm calling you a liar, but mind if I ask where you found that? Just seems kinda weird, seeing as everyone I know is a little scared of them despite never having any real contact with them. In fact, as far as I know, the people with contact with snakes are LESS likely to be afraid, cause most snakes are harmless to humans and so holding, seeing etc them helps people to realise that.

I think what she means is, people aren't born being afraid of snakes, because it's only through learning that we ever discover what snakes even are, and that learning almost always involves the idea that snakes are bad.

[Cassini90125]

Wait, wait...humans have been proven to NOT have a fear of snakes? Not that I'm calling you a liar, but mind if I ask where you found that? Just seems kinda weird, seeing as everyone I know is a little scared of them despite never having any real contact with them. In fact, as far as I know, the people with contact with snakes are LESS likely to be afraid, cause most snakes are harmless to humans and so holding, seeing etc them helps people to realise that.

I'd like to know that myself. Simply saying that "Humans have been scientifically proven..." is meaningless regardless of the topic. "Scientifically proven" by who? A legitimate research group or a group with an agenda? What was the purpose of the research? What methodology was used? Unless such questions can be answered, I cannot take claims of scientific proof seriously, regardless who is making the claim or whether I want to agree with it or not.

Kudos, Ub3rD4n, for asking a very good question. :)

[Bloo2daMacs]

Oh, GOSH! I FREAKING HATE THIS!

I'm sorry, but this puts SO MUCH anger in me! The fact that he would RANDOMLY appear and decide to freaking shoot at a hamrless snake, and the freaking SHOOT A LITTLE BOY due to horrific aim- I just- I can't- GAH!

That other cop you mentioned- just, OOH! I CAN'T.... I'm using too much caps lock. This is really getting to me. I probably shouldn't have looked at this thread. I'm sorry.

If I could speak to either of the cops, I would have no mercy. Of course, they could probably arrest/beat the crap out of me, but it'd be worth it.

[Crash-N-Cortex]

I can't believe the cop would shoot a kid for no reason. I feel that the cop hasn't practiced his shooting before getting behind the wheel of a cop cor. I hope that the cop was be fired or in this case go to jail.

[Partymember]

I can't believe the cop would shoot a kid for no reason. I feel that the cop hasn't practiced his shooting before getting behind the wheel of a cop cor. I hope that the cop was be fired or in this case go to jail.

he should be shot in the head for what he did. Period.

then bill his family the $0.13 for the bullet.

[pitbulllady]

Wait, wait...humans have been proven to NOT have a fear of snakes? Not that I'm calling you a liar, but mind if I ask where you found that? Just seems kinda weird, seeing as everyone I know is a little scared of them despite never having any real contact with them. In fact, as far as I know, the people with contact with snakes are LESS likely to be afraid, cause most snakes are harmless to humans and so holding, seeing etc them helps people to realise that.

B.F. Skinner actually did experiments with this, which were later validated by another experiment at Yerkes Primate Center. Skinner compared the reactions of human toddlers, which had not been exposed to snakes, with those of young chimps and Rhesus monkeys, which were born in captivity and also had had no contact with snakes. He placed a harmless snake in contact with both groups. The human toddlers readily picked up the snake, touched it, and were not afraid of it at all. In contrast, the young chimps and monkeys, although never having seen a snake before, were terrified of it. The Yerkes Primate Center experiment used a toy snake, which elicited terror in every single species of ape and monkey they showed it to, including those which were captive born and had never seen a snake, even those that had been raised by humans, without even having had contact with adults of their own kind. These experiments are widely known in child psych studies, and if you plan to become a teacher, you must take lots of child psych courses. The fear of snakes is a cultural thing in humans, and it is NOT actually present in all cultures. Most Native American cultures do not promote a fear of snakes, for example. More recent studies suggest that we humans have a gene that allows us to LEARN to fear certain aninals very readily, but we do not have an instinctive fear of those animals. Here is the details of that latest experiments, which proved that toddlers do have a predisposition to LEARN to fear certain things, but they have to learn it from SOMEBODY: http://aands.virginia.edu/x837.xml . Even people who live where there are no snakes, are still subliminally bombarded with the message that snakes are "evil", and all of them are dangerous, or "mean". We have images of snakes used to represent evil or something bad in everything from advertizing to religious imagery to popular movies, and we are exposed to that from an early age. Most people just accept it, and don't even question it. Children are very perceptive to their parents' reactions to things; they can witness a parent reacting negatively to seeing a snake on tv, and file that away in their subconcious as a bad thing. If everything you see or hear about something is negative, naturally you will fear it. It's ironic that humans ourselves have probably never been preyed upon by snakes, unlike monkeys and small apes which HAVE evolved where large constricting snakes are among their predators, but there is considerable paleo-anthropoligical evidence that we we often eaten by large mammalian predators, like leopards, but far fewer people will react with fear to a large cat, than will to a even a small snake.

Some of us apparently lack that gene, since in spite of my parents' efforts to make me hate snakes, I never did feel anything that could overcome my fascination for them, and my neice, who is now four, is just as fascinated with them as I was, and is asking her parents to let her have one for Christmas already! I actually managed to change my dad's and grandparents' attitudes about snakes, to the point that my grandfather, who was normally more or less a human version of Wilt, once threatened a guy with a shotgun after the guy nearly ran HIM down in his own driveway while attempting to run over a Ratsnake that had just crossed the road in front of my grandparents' house, then had the audacity to tell my grandfather to get out of the way so he could kill the snake...in my grandfather's own driveway. You didn't mess with Ratsnakes or Kingsnakes on Papa's property, even though when I was a little kid he would kill any and every snake he saw, not realizing that most of them were harmless and would actually do a lot of good by eating the rodents that are the scourge of every farmer. Behavior that is learned, can be UNlearned, but true instinct is almost impossible to overcome. If humans had a real, instinctive, unlearned fear of snakes, you would be very hard-pressed to teach people to accept them, but I've done that with many people. Often, just seeing me hold one will be enough to make many people develope a new-found respect for the animals. Even people with genuine phobias, which are a form of mental illness, can be cured of their phobia of snakes.

pitbulllady

[Partymember]

the whole thing is ridiculous...if you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO (and i can envision no circumstances in which this applies) kill the snake, use a shotgun loaded with birdshot and change your angle so you're shooting INTO the trunk.

Birdshot, for the uninitiated, has an effective range of MAYBE 20 meters and beyond that is not lethal or even harmful, too much loss in velocity and negligable mass renders it useless past all but the shortest distances. Since cops do have shotguns in their patrol cars, i don't think a trip to the hardware store (or a neighbors house) to get a charge of #8 shot would have been out of the question.

Hell, hit the thing with a baseball bat if you really gotta kill it. Its a snake, not an armored car, a simple smack to the head with a Louisville Slugger would crack its neck.

[kageri]

I think the thing with the woman and her father is even more disturbing. It's extremely unsettling to think that anyone could be that callous, and even worse when it's someone we're supposed to be able to trust to protect us. I mean I'm guessing the cop doubted the woman was telling the truth, but he could have looked in her car and, y'know, if there's an elderly man lying prostrate in the backseat, she's probably not lying.

By the way, did her dad survive? My faith in the human race is hanging in the balance.

[Ub3rD4n]

Well, we learn something new every day. I'm glad you were here to enlighten me on the subject. It's a little weird that humanity teaches prejudice against snakes, even in an area of the world (such as my own) where there are no snakes. I hope your parents are okay with your interest in snakes now, it'd be a shame if they couldn't accept it, cause (forgive me if I'm being presumptuous) that seems to be a big thing for you. :mfoster:

[pitbulllady]

the whole thing is ridiculous...if you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO (and i can envision no circumstances in which this applies) kill the snake, use a shotgun loaded with birdshot and change your angle so you're shooting INTO the trunk.

Birdshot, for the uninitiated, has an effective range of MAYBE 20 meters and beyond that is not lethal or even harmful, too much loss in velocity and negligable mass renders it useless past all but the shortest distances. Since cops do have shotguns in their patrol cars, i don't think a trip to the hardware store (or a neighbors house) to get a charge of #8 shot would have been out of the question.

Hell, hit the thing with a baseball bat if you really gotta kill it. Its a snake, not an armored car, a simple smack to the head with a Louisville Slugger would crack its neck.


Very good point,with regards to the shotgun, since every police officer I know DOES carry a shotgun, which is far safer to anyone in the distance and far more effective for dispatching small animals when needed. The article specifically said that the snake was UP a tree, and I'm still trying to figure out how they wound up killing someone below their own level while shooting at something up above unless the bullets ricocheted off a tree limb. I'm a good shot myself, but I would not consider trying to use a handgun to shoot something small that is in a tree, especially in an area where humans are known to be at the time.

On the topic of my parents and my fondness of snakes-my mother is deceased; she died of COPD at the age of 46. My father is a bright person, and he was very receptive to learning about snakes, which he had always thought were evil creatures. He has no problem with me keeping them and has even held one or two himself. My mom never got over her fear of them, but eventually gave up on changing my mind. My grandfather became a staunch defender of snakes and proponent of their importance as pest controllers that were far more effective than cats and much cheaper and safer than using poisons. My brother-in-law, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, has also become skilled at determining whether a snake is venomous or not and has also come to appreciate their value as pest controllers, since he has horses and barns, and that means mice and rats. I have to share credit with Steve-O on that, though, since the only time I've ever seen my brother-in-law cry was when Steve got killed. All of these people were people who feared and hated all snakes, and believed that the only good snake was a dead one, so if they can change it means that this behavior was indeed learned, not instinctual.

pitbulllady

[Partymember]

even if you hit the snake with a 9mm or .45 the bullet is most defenitley travelling through and well past the snake's head, unless you're using those stupid Frangible "green" rounds (which i don't believe are standard issue to cops)

[koosie]

Since hope for humanity's already disappeared in this thread, at least there's the good news that we'll no longer have those dreadful Yangste River Dolphins in our face anymore.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6935343.stm

It's especially gutting that it was not even a true dolphin but a different member of the Whale family altogether. We're no better here, you should see the stuff we're losing to progress all the time. Idiots don't just come with guns, they have bulldozers, chainsaws and all sorts of things to mess us wild folk around. Tooth and claw, brothers and sisters!

[cartman414]

All of this is depressing, and no doubt usable as further evidence of "devolution" (TM DEVO).

[Partymember]

All of this is depressing, and no doubt usable as further evidence of "devolution" (TM DEVO).

hehe...i'm glad to be rid of those vicious Yangtze Dolphins, though.

[pitbulllady]

Here's the latest article on this cop-kills-kid debacle, reinforcing what I've said all along: the snake in question was a harmless Black Ratsnake, NOT a rattler as the cop and the person calling the police had thought. I can't understand how someone who is not legally blind could confuse the two; it would be like someone who can't tell the difference between a German Shepherd and an Old English Sheepdog, since those two snakes are just THAT different, in terms of appearance. As you can see by the article, police officers can only discharge a weapon at a DANGEROUS animal, and can only discharge a weapon if there is no chance of an innocent person being hit.

http://newsok.com/article/3100915

pitbulllady

[Ub3rD4n]

Man, I heard about the river dolphin thing today in a lecture. Saddening, truly. I mean, we have so little ability to stop these things from going extinct once we start them off.....and in some parts of the world, people are still starting them off. :(

But I'm probably telling you nothing you don't already know.