Any Vegans or Vegetarians Out There

[GrimTheLost]

I pretty much wanna know if there are any other vegetarians or even vegans that are on here. I really guess I want to have a little comradery in that area. I am just curious.:bloogrin: And also if this is in the wrong area please tell me.

[jekylljuice]

Yep, I'm a vegetarian (have been since I was 11, largely for ethical reasons but also because I'm not especially keen on meat-based foods). I'm often quite nervous to mention it in certain social situations, because it leaves me open to a lot of rather uncalled-for rebuking from meat-eaters, but I'm sure the people at NF are more mature than that. ;)

Being a vegetarian is, of course, an individual lifestyle choice, and I've always respected the decisions of those who choose to eat meat (my family, my friends, even my pets are all meat-eaters, so I'm quite comfortable with it being eaten around me). And it's always nice to get that kind of respect in return.

[Medikor]

What's the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan? I could never understand the difference or mindsets of either. I know that most vegetarians chose that path out of a love of animals but its not the path for me.
I don't mind vegetarians as long as they're not the pushy ones that condemn you for eating meat. It's too bad that more people I meet can't just agree to disagree and respect each others eating habits like us, we have different views on it, but we're cool with each other and get along. :D

[jekylljuice]

What's the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan? I could never understand the difference or mindsets of either. I know that most vegetarians chose that path out of a love of animals but its not the path for me.
I don't mind vegetarians as long as they're not the pushy ones that condemn you for eating meat. It's too bad that more people I meet can't just agree to disagree and respect each others eating habits like us, we have different views on it, but we're cool with each other and get along. :D

The fundamental difference is that while vegetarianism refers to an abstinence from all meat and meat by-products, veganism refers to an entire abstinence from animal-based food products altogether, which extends to dairy and eggs.

And I have no argument with your last point. I'm all for a perfect world in which nobody need face harrassment for their dietary choices, whether meat-eating or vegetarian. :D

[Cassini90125]

I believe veganism is also supposed to preclude the use of animal products that are not food, such as leather and fur.

My diet is largely vegetarian for health reasons. My health is fine, but why wait for a heart attack to make changes? Most of the cheese products I eat are soy-based or otherwise free of saturated fat. Red meat is out, thought there are days when I'd happily kill for a 32-oz steak. I eat a lot more fish than I used to, usually orange roughy, with has no saturated fat and is low in calories, too.

[GrimTheLost]

Yep, I'm a vegetarian (have been since I was 11, largely for ethical reasons but also because I'm not especially keen on meat-based foods). I'm often quite nervous to mention it in certain social situations, because it leaves me open to a lot of rather uncalled-for rebuking from meat-eaters, but I'm sure the people at NF are more mature than that. ;)

Being a vegetarian is, of course, an individual lifestyle choice, and I've always respected the decisions of those who choose to eat meat (my family, my friends, even my pets are all meat-eaters, so I'm quite comfortable with it being eaten around me). And it's always nice to get that kind of respect in return.

This is cool to find another vegetarian on here. And 11 years, that is an inspiration to me. Thanks for posting, kind of made my day.

[Medikor]

The fundamental difference is that while vegetarianism refers to an abstinence from all meat and meat by-products, veganism refers to an entire abstinence from animal-based food products altogether, which extends to dairy and eggs.

Okay that makes sense. I knew (or assumed) that vegetarians must fall back on eggs and other by-products to get the protein that they would otherwise miss out on from meat. Thanks for the info, jekyill.:D

[One Radical Dude]

I don't mind vegetarians as long as they're not the pushy ones that condemn you for eating meat. It's too bad that more people I meet can't just agree to disagree and respect each others eating habits like us, we have different views on it, but we're cool with each other and get along. :D

Yeah, no kidding. :P It's fine, if one doesn't want to eat meat (I totally respect that), as long as they respect the fact that I LIKE meat.

[koosie]

Is there nobody on the forum who's vegetarian through culture rather than personal choice? There's a lot of them of them out there you know. I hope you're all taking your B12 supplements as that's the only thing humans need that mostly enters the diet through animal sources.

I've been vegetarian through choice but I've also been very poor and in those circumstances you tend eat whatever you get your hands on. One of the best arguments for vegetarianism is that meat production produces the lowest energy output for land used (except for in the forest enviroment) which becomes increasingly significant as the global population rockets toward 7 Billion. Better get used to liking Soya! And algae.

For me to be vegetarian now would be completely hypocritical as I regularly kill large numbers animals to keep them from eating the damn plants I depend on for my continued survival. Admittedly these are almost exclusively insects and molluscs but at what point would I draw the line between worthy or unworthy animals? Besides I love eating poor old Trout and in the end, something's going to eat me even if it's only worms, bacteria or fire. Not too late for the tigers though. Nice pussy.

[montitech]

One of the best arguments for vegetarianism is that meat production produces the lowest energy output for land used (except for in the forest enviroment) which becomes increasingly significant as the global population rockets toward 7 Billion. Better get used to liking Soya! And algae.


If most efficient usage was a concern then humanity should turn to:
SOYLENT GREEN

but would that defeat being a vegitarian?
Question
is eating Soylent Green considered canibalism?


Spoilers were used to not offend anyone.

Monty :-/

[GrimTheLost]

If most efficient usage was a concern then humanity should turn to:
SOYLENT GREEN

but would that defeat being a vegitarian?
Question
is eating Soylent Green considered canibalism?


Spoilers were used to not offend anyone.

Monty :-/

I think it might unwittingly defeat being a vegetarian and same goes for the cannibalism .

[Partymember]

Monty, you TOTALLY got to it befire i did!

[jekylljuice]

This is cool to find another vegetarian on here. And 11 years, that is an inspiration to me. Thanks for posting, kind of made my day.

Hey, my pleasure. :)

Is there nobody on the forum who's vegetarian through culture rather than personal choice? There's a lot of them of them out there you know. I hope you're all taking your B12 supplements as that's the only thing humans need that mostly enters the diet through animal sources.

I don't think that supplements are really necessary, at least I've never had the need to be taking them. Pretty much every single cereal-product has been fortified with the stuff nowadays. Plus there's always my sticky black mate Marmite.


I think it might unwittingly defeat being a vegetarian and same goes for the cannibalism .

Along that chain of thought:

You know, I've often wondered what Soylent Red and Yellow were made from. They were mentioned at the start of the film and never raised again.

[koosie]

Yeh Marmite is delicious and full of good stuff. I can eat tons of it.
I seem to remember:

Red and Yellow were algae farmed from the ocean. That's why no-one liked them. I'm not sure how I know that, maybe I read the book once or something. Great movie. Much better than the Omega Man. SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!

[Partymember]

Charelton Heston is awesome!

:bloogrin:

[montitech]

Yeh Marmite is delicious and full of good stuff. I can eat tons of it.
I seem to remember:

Red and Yellow were algae farmed from the ocean. That's why no-one liked them. I'm not sure how I know that, maybe I read the book once or something. Great movie. Much better than the Omega Man. SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!


Hey Omega man was fun, There is nothing like a good zombie bashing movie, Without the gore. The gore im many modern movies makes them kind of gross, while the classics are a bit more fun, like the original Night of the living Dead, I cannot get enough of that film.

Back on topic,
Personally I like my bacon, I am not fond on vegitarian diets and I hope that no-one is putting themselves at risk. I respect people who make the choice of it, but I do not understand it. One of the children at my sons playgroup (2year old) is a vegitarian. His mom said one day that he likes being a vegitarian, and that she is proud that he has not had ANY vaxinations (she is a Holistic mom, they have a website). I cannot understand this. and I do not think I want to. but as for others I see no problem eating, salads, beans, ect... but I personally would prefer to eat meats as opposed to taking vitamin suppliments.

Monty :-/

[GrimTheLost]

I don't think I would need to take supplements. I don't think I ever got the right vitamins to begin with. And I don't know how I feel about Holistics.

[jekylljuice]

Vitamin supplements are largely unnecessary. I've never bothered with them myself, and I would probably only recommend them to people who have extremely restrictive diets (in that they only ever eat the same one or two meals). It isn't particularly hard to get all the nutrients your body requires, provided you eat a varied enough diet. But then that's good advice for anyone, vegetarian or no.

[Cassini90125]

As Vitamin B12 comes only from animal products, a strict vegan has a choice; he can either take a supplement, or he can eventually die from nerve degeneration. End of story. That being said, a vegetarian diet has a lot to offer; it is much lower in fat and calories than meat-based diets, it's cholesterol free, and aside from Vitamin B12 it is capable of supplying all of the body's required nutrients. Some nutrients, such as calcium and iron, can be problematic, but it is usually possible to work around such problems with a little research and planning.

[jekylljuice]

As Vitamin B12 comes only from animal products, a strict vegan has a choice; he can either take a supplement, or he can eventually die from nerve degeneration. End of story. That being said, a vegetarian diet has a lot to offer; it is much lower in fat and calories than meat-based diets, it's cholesterol free, and aside from Vitamin B12 it is capable of supplying all of the body's required nutrients. Some nutrients, such as calcium and iron, can be problematic, but it is usually possible to work around such problems with a little research and planning.

Vitamin B12 is still very readily available to the lacto-ovo vegetarian diet, of course, with emphasis on the "lacto" and "ovo". And additionally, as I said above, there is a wide variety of plant-based foods which have been fortified with B12 nowadays which make up valuable sources of nutrients. Which is why I've never had the need personally to take vitamin supplements. For a strict vegan, it may well be a different story, but I've yet to enter into that particular camp.

[scary_dream]

I'm eating considerably less meat than I used to but I'm still no vegetarian. I like meat too much. Meat substitutes just aren't the same, either... I tried eating meatless hot dogs the other day, and after a few bites, I wanted to eat the wrapper more than the actual dogs themselves. They were terrible.

I respect vegetarians/vegans... it's a huge decision that requires much accomondation and effort in today's "EAT MORE MEAT!!!" society.

[GrimTheLost]

Have you tried Boca Burgers, Scary? They are the awesome. Also GardenBurger has Riblets that are great too. Now I'm hungry... time to gorge myself like an omnivore. heh heh.

[some guy you dont know]

im not really a vegetarian, but i really only eat fish, and tacos, and slim jims. but everything else i eat is pretty much grown in some garden or something.

[scary_dream]

Have you tried Boca Burgers, Scary? They are the awesome. Also GardenBurger has Riblets that are great too. Now I'm hungry... time to gorge myself like an omnivore. heh heh.

I've not tried Boca Burgers, but I will have to now. I don't want to let ONE bad experience to turn me off of meat substitutes forever, so thanks for the suggestion.

[GrimTheLost]

I've not tried Boca Burgers, but I will have to now. I don't want to let ONE bad experience to turn me off of meat substitutes forever, so thanks for the suggestion.

Hopefully you'll like them. Every time I have one it's like a little piece of heaven. MMM.

[AerostarMonk]

I think I've got most of these meat eaters beat. I mean I could never go vegetarian. I get these outrageous cravings for meat that are actually sorta scary. I mean every time I see an animal just pounce on another in a nature documentary I just want to stock up at supermarket. I don't understand why I like meat so much. It may have to do with a time when I was in kindergarten and tried to eat vegetables and threw up. From then on the very sight of half eaten vegetables and fruits and dips and salads, dressings, and many other things makes me feel sorta ill. It's very odd.

In fact the only thing that matches my cravings for meat is my cravings for cheese.

Wow, I must seem like such a weirdo.

[Partymember]

I think I've got most of these meat eaters beat. I mean I could never go vegetarian. I get these outrageous cravings for meat that are actually sorta scary. I mean every time I see an animal just pounce on another in a nature documentary I just want to stock up at supermarket. I don't understand why I like meat so much. It may have to do with a time when I was in kindergarten and tried to eat vegetables and threw up. From then on the very sight of half eaten vegetables and fruits and dips and salads, dressings, and many other things makes me feel sorta ill. It's very odd.

In fact the only thing that matches my cravings for meat is my cravings for cheese.

Wow, I must seem like such a weirdo.

Nothing wierd about it. Our ancestors killed and ate deer and bison daily to survive. Its called instinct. Embrace it.

[scary_dream]

Yeah, nothing weird. Humans are designed to be carnivores... look at our teeth (we have canines) and our eyes (they're directly in front of us for depth perception like cheetahs, not on the sides for surroundings examination like deer and cows)

[jekylljuice]

Yeah, nothing weird. Humans are designed to be carnivores... look at our teeth (we have canines) and our eyes (they're directly in front of us for depth perception like cheetahs, not on the sides for surroundings examination like deer and cows)

Omnivores, not carnivores. Carnivore refers more to the likes of my feline companions, who live on a diet consisting of 100% meat. Well, my kitty likes a saucer of cream on the side.

Not to seem like a nitpicker. :)

[Partymember]

yes, omnivores. We have both incisors and molars. I enjoy eating a large rare steak with a quartered potato (too large to really justify labelling them "steak fries"). I also buy a small loaf of homemade bread to rip chunks off and sop up the juice and blood with. THAT makes a good meal. I usually eat it with my hands 8D

[jekylljuice]

yes, omnivores. We have both incisors and molars. I enjoy eating a large rare steak with a quartered potato (too large to really justify labelling them "steak fries"). I also buy a small loaf of homemade bread to rip chunks off and sop up the juice and blood with. THAT makes a good meal. I usually eat it with my hands 8D

I do that with tomato soup (the bread thing, I mean). Naturally, it doesn't have quite the same primitive appeal, but it's my own idea of good eating. :bloogrin:

[scary_dream]

Yeah I know we're omnivores, my bad. I just meant that we were meant to eat meat along with the veggies in question.

[jekylljuice]

Yeah I know we're omnivores, my bad. I just meant that we were meant to eat meat along with the veggies in question.

I know what you're getting at, though I wouldn't quite say that we were meant to eat meat myself ("meant" being the word I'd find slightly problematic, since it implies external purpose and intention, which doesn't really fit in with my own personal world view, but it's probably best if we don't go there :P).

I don't know, it's just that I don't see my decision not to eat meat as a major act of rebellion on my part, just something which I'm fortunate enough to be able to take control of in my own life, since I've chosen to. And I don't believe that what my prehistoric ancestors had to go through need have any bearing on it. I'm just glad that I wasn't born in their time (for a multitude of reasons besides, no less because their standard cure for headaches was seemingly to trapan a hole in the patient's head - though what's fascinating is that they have a whole collection of healing skulls indicating the patients' survival, so maybe I should be giving them a little more credit :cheese:). Whatever traces of their primitive instincts remain in me I'm sure I vent sufficiently in my everyday activities. Like my so-called approach to "dancing" for one - that really makes me feel like a wild animal. 8D

[scary_dream]

I know what you're getting at, though I wouldn't quite say that we were meant to eat meat myself ("meant" being the word I'd find slightly problematic, since it implies external purpose and intention, which doesn't really fit in with my own personal world view, but it's probably best if we don't go there :P).

I wasn't meaning "meant" as an external purpose, but that we were meant to as in our bodies have chatacteristics of animals that also eat meat.

I'm not getting into spiritual talk or religion, just that based on scientific evidence of both physical characteristics and our bodies' chemical needs, to keep ourselves alive (before there was meat substitutes) we NEEDED to eat meat. :P There's no religion or bias about that.

[jekylljuice]

I wasn't meaning "meant" as an external purpose, but that we were meant to as in our bodies have chatacteristics of animals that also eat meat.

I'm not getting into spiritual talk or religion, just that based on scientific evidence of both physical characteristics and our bodies' chemical needs, to keep ourselves alive (before there was meat substitutes) we NEEDED to eat meat. :P There's no religion or bias about that.

No worries, I understood what you were saying. My own point was just that whatever obligations may have existed in the past are now redundant. In an age where our basic instincts are severly tempered by such factors as reason and self-consciousness (they may be annoying, but we're stuck with them until the effects of the next nuclear war), it becomes a matter of personal preference.:)

[montitech]

My own point was just that whatever obligations may have existed in the past are now redundant. In an age where our basic instincts are severly tempered by such factors as reason and self-consciousness (they may be annoying, but we're stuck with them until the effects of the next nuclear war), it becomes a matter of personal preference.:)

What is considered "existed in the past are now redundant"


Ummm, The rest is a very similar to a way over 2000 year old belief, I think it was Plato? or may Plato as told through Aristotal. Maybe someone else could assist in refreshing my memory, but it is something like this. Reason, KNowledge are the ultimate goals (in self-consciousness can be implied into this) as opposed to Hunger, Love, war, pain fear etc...; These are all appitietes that prevent us from achiving and thus make us less Human and more animalistic.

(I am just stating an observation, I am not making any opinions for or against the arguments.)

Monty :-/

[jekylljuice]

What is considered "existed in the past are now redundant"

Well, I guess it could be applied to any circumstance in which human beings are able to take active control of their own lifestyles, as opposed to following instinct. More specifically, our way of living differs so drastically from that of our prehistoric ancestors that taking active control of our diets, if we choose to, doesn't strike me as being terribly radical or out-of-place.

[Partymember]

Well, I guess it could be applied to any circumstance in which human beings are able to take active control of their own lifestyles, as opposed to following instinct. More specifically, our way of living differs so drastically from that of our prehistoric ancestors that taking active control of our diets, if we choose to, doesn't strike me as being terribly radical or out-of-place.

i wouldn't put money on that. Our economies, governments, civilaztions and religions are fragile and artificial. The one absolute is the Law of Club and Fang, and you can be sure that we slip back into the Dark Ages every so often. When is a matter of speculation, how is a matter of seculation, but it will happen.

[Ditchy McAbandonpants]

Partymember: Well, that may be true, but I think jekylljuice's point is that for now, civilisation is still very much in place, so we're free to do what we want nutrition-wise, and for some people that means foregoing bloody flesh in favour of tomato soup. :P

Still, I'm more of the school of thought that if my body can digest meat, it would be a bit of a waste not to utilise that function. Being a vegetarian to me seems like buying a PlayStation 3 but refusing to use the built-in Blu-Ray player, to use a really geeky analogy. :P The powers that be have seen fit to bless me with [noun form of "omnivorous"]*, so damn it, I'm taking advantage! That, and I looooove the meat. :bendy:

* - What the heck is the noun form of omnivorous? Omnivorousness? Omnivorosity? Omnivorification?

[Cassini90125]

You and me both :). While the body can digest meat, it doesn't do it as well as a true carnivore such as a tiger does. Still, we handle saturated fats and cholesterol better than any other primate species. I think it is very likely that our distant ancestors were vegetarian but began eating meat more often as the ancient African plains started to dry out when the climate began shifting. It may have been more a matter of necessity than choice. I won't bore anyone by reciting the tale of human evolution here, but I do think that the enviromental conditions of the time favored individuals that, by some quirk of fate, were better able to digest meat than others.

One thing I'm not clear on is why we cook meat, or any other food. I mean, no other species does this, nor does one ever encounter cooked food in nature, except near forest fires and active volcanoes. Why did we start doing that? Just to improve the flavor and texture? True, cooking kills bacteria and neutralizes some plant toxins, but because the body hasn't had to deal with those things for so long it seems that we've lost the ability to do so. Hence we have e. coli scares now and then from undercooked foods, mostly meat, while other species seem to get by fine on a diet that's 100% raw. Any thoughts?

[Fomalhaut]

As for me, I'm a meat-eater, but have some vegetarian friends, and totally respect them and actually had dinner with them, and I must say it was great!

As a child, I used to be like "Brr, vegetables! GETAWAYGETAWAY - ARGH!", but now I'm eating most of them (except for aubergine, zukkini and mushrroms). Though, sometimes I feel the need to not eat meat for a day or two, and so I'm an "occasional vegetarian" (but it happens pretty rarely, and my family usually goes like "WTF?").

[koosie]

One thing I'm not clear on is why we cook meat, or any other food. I mean, no other species does this, nor does one ever encounter cooked food in nature, except near forest fires and active volcanoes. Why did we start doing that? Just to improve the flavor and texture? True, cooking kills bacteria and neutralizes some plant toxins, but because the body hasn't had to deal with those things for so long it seems that we've lost the ability to do so. Hence we have e. coli scares now and then from undercooked foods, mostly meat, while other species seem to get by fine on a diet that's 100% raw. Any thoughts?


I given this a lot of thought in my life and this is what I 'reckon'. It all comes down to our relationships with the dominant form of life on this planet, namely bacteria. Were we to eat raw meat from a young age, it is likely different bacteria would develop in our digestive system to process it efficiently that we lack as cooked-meat eaters. A lifelong eater of cooked-meat would probably experience digestive discomfort eating raw meat even if it was free from the unfriendly bacteria that has evolved to flourish in our intensive food-production environments.

It is likely this behaviour developed by accident as a result of our noses leading us to the charred victims of forest fires and finding the taste actually enhanced. Animals too have very probably made the same discovery but lack advanced communication (ie culture) to transmit this discovery to the rest of their kind.

OK another mystery. Our nearest relative, the Chimpanzee, can be divided into 2 groups - The Chimps and the slightly smaller Bonobos who developed independantly of each other probably because of the physical divide of the Congo River. The Chimps on the North side like us eat whatever they can get their hands on yet the southern Bonobos are pretty much vegetarian. Why?

[svedka]

Not sure as to why the Bonobos are vegetarians, but I saw a special on them once and they are some of the most intelligent, as well as... how shall I put this... the most liberal with their affections of the primates. Training of a specific Bonobo resulted in him understanding human language and being able to communicate by special boards with thousands of icons (representing feelings and desires as well as physical objects) that he's been taught to recognize.

I am a vegetarian of 9 years and do so because I just don't really like meat. I have no problems with meat eaters or people eating meat around me, though once I was verbally accosted by a girl who just assumed I would judge her.

:P

[GrimTheLost]

I am a vegetarian of 9 years and do so because I just don't really like meat. I have no problems with meat eaters or people eating meat around me, though once I was verbally accosted by a girl who just assumed I would judge her.

:P

I got laughed at when I mentioned it to people. And now they don't take me seriously. Their loss.