Goofball John Magee

[Bloo2daMacs]

The guy that came to Foster's and said he was amn imaginary friend, turned out he was. Created by John Larry McGee in Canada. Is the mascot for his creators canadian football team. He annoyed Frankie to no end. Personally, I absolutely HATED goofball. He torchured Frannie- er... Frankie. The only time he was nice to her was at the end of the episode, but he still called her Frannie. How do you guys feel about John- errr melony- errr GOOFBALL?!!
::)

Maybe you can change my mind about him, although you probabaly can't.

[Cassini90125]

Don't get me started. >:(

[One Radical Dude]

I don't really care for Goofball McGee (not Magee :P ), but I can't totally blame him for what happened in IHFUMEUP. Frankie was too quick to judge Goofball, and assume that Goofball is just some kooky teenage boy, pretending to be an IF. I know I'm in the minority to say this, but that's what I honestly believe.

[kageri]

I thought he was funny.

*brick'd*

But seriously, I liked his voice though.

[Bloo2daMacs]

Don't get me started. >:(

I knew you were gonna get mad about this thread, but don't get me wrong, I hated hime too. I dislike him with great great great great great great great intensity. sorry if you dispise me for making this thread. :(

[Cassini90125]

I thought he was funny.

*brick'd*

But seriously, I liked his voice though.



My only question is whether or not his trunk will hold the shape of the knot I'd like to tie it in.

Gimme back my brick. :)

I knew you were gonna get mad about this thread, but don't get me wrong, I hated hime too. I dislike him with great great great great great great great intensity. sorry if you dispise me for making this thread. :(

Not to worry, I use Goofball threads as an excuse to yell.

[Voxxyn]

Personally, Goofball's right up there with Paris Hilton and Crazy Frog in my book of most hated things... EVER.

[kageri]

If I'm unfortunate enough to meet him on the same day I'm planning to see one of my favorite bands live, well... let's just say I'd do to him what Cartman did to Scott Tenorman.

Too bad he doesn't have parents. Oh well, you can make him eat his creators instead.

[McGee's Jabberwock]

That ep was a bit sadistic to poor old Frankie.:frankiemad: Missing the concert...

[Cassini90125]

Sadistic? It was pure cruelty. I will never forgive Goofball, and I don't plan on forgetting Bloo's and Mr. Herriman's contributions to Frankie's misery, either.

[DoubleLatte]

Sadistic? It was pure cruelty. I will never forgive Goofball, and I don't plan on forgetting Bloo's and Mr. Herriman's contributions to Frankie's misery, either.

Well technically 'sadistic' and 'cruel' are both the same thing, so all of the above. ;) Anyway, yeah, that episode was just...wrong, and sick on so many levels. I saw a rerun of it tonight and I felt my gut twisting once again at the sight of Goofball. I love Tom Kenny and his voice work on Spongebob, but Goofball's voice was just GRATING.

I don't really care for Goofball McGee (not Magee :P ), but I can't totally blame him for what happened in IHFUMEUP. Frankie was too quick to judge Goofball, and assume that Goofball is just some kooky teenage boy, pretending to be an IF. I know I'm in the minority to say this, but that's what I honestly believe.

You're right; Frankie was quick to judge him, but I think any of us would have reacted the same way to an identical image of a teenage boy wearing a clown's nose and a polka dotted tie. I probably would have yanked on his nose right from the beginning to prove my point and save myself an entire evening of torture. Poor Frankie. Never in my life had I ever felt so bad for her. I keep wondering why Foster's won't hire anybody else to lend her a hand. It's physically impossible to do everything Frankie does in one day, specially in a mansion as big as Foster's. She'll wear herself out before she even reaches her 30's.

[ch3353-h4xx0rrrr]

Frankie wasn't too quick to judge. He looked like a teenage boy with a red nose and a "crazy tie", and he sounded so unsure and had to rely on Frankie's sayings. Made ME mad. I don't like the impact Goofball had on Bloo, either.

GOOFBALL: PROMOTING LAZINESS, LYING, SELF DEFAMATION, AND HATRED IN TWO COUNTRIES.

[Cassini90125]

GOOFBALL: PROMOTING LAZINESS, LYING, SELF DEFAMATION, AND HATRED IN TWO COUNTRIES.

That would make an excellent caption for his "Wanted" poster. :)

[Kzinistzerg]

Urgh. I saw that episode last night (well, this morning, it was on at 1) and he gives canadians a bad name. I like canadians, and they don't sound like him. Though they do have funny accents.

[One Radical Dude]

Goofball definitely didn't look like an IF, but the same can be said for Prince Charming (an Imaginary Man). :P Hey, "Goof Goof McGoof" looked more like an IF than Goofball McGee did. 8D

[Scribble]

I probably would have yanked on his nose right from the beginning to prove my point and save myself an entire evening of torture.

Actually, apart from Goofball being one of the most irritating characters ever, that was another thing that really annoyed me during the episode. I found the whole episode was just... so annoying! I just wanted Frankie to pull that damn red nose off!!! >.<

[billytheskink]

Now, I'm no fan of him. He was quite obnoxious and the writers left a hole in his backstory that was almost as annoying as he was (why would an imaginary friend who is a football mascot have homework?).

However, his conversation with Frankie about phones in Canada was hilarious.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

I'm a Frankie fan, you know that, and you probably already can guess how I feel towards Goofball.

It's very simple...

I don't hate him.....I loathe him. I despise, detest, disgust, and dynamically dislike him to a definition that knows no bounds!

Sorry, I think that just needed to be said.

[Cassini90125]

I've said that, but it bears repeating. :)

[Voxxyn]

LONG OVERDUE EDIT: I deleted the original post because, quite frankly, it was a very coldhearted and stupid thing for me to say, and I hope you can forgive me for it. I wrote and posted solely out of pure anger upon seeing the name on the topic listing, and simply forgot about it until recently. I would never truly do something like that, and I apologize. Goofball's family seem like OK people.

In fact, upon recently rewatching "Imposter's Home" after many months of bashing it... I must say that it isn't THAT bad. I admit it, I've become so fixated with Goofball being a blatant moocher and Frankie missing her concert, that I forgot that it actually has somewhat of a happy ending. It was just nice to see Frankie NOT taking things personally, and instead doing her best to smile along and be a good sport about it. And she looks adorable with that clown nose.

I still hate Goofball, though. :(

[rukift]

Am I like the only person here who doesn't hate goofball? :P I thought he was cool, he was a funny character. So layed back...

[Voxxyn]

It's not so much what he is, but what he DID to my favorite character... :frankiemad: :(

[rukift]

Oh come on, Frankie's life can't be perfect. Putting up with Goofball was just another bump in the road. She lived.

[Cassini90125]

Oh come on, Frankie's life can't be perfect. Putting up with Goofball was just another bump in the road. She lived.

I see, so we were supposed to enjoy watching Frankie suffer? Sorry, but I don't enjoy seeing the people I love go through a living hell like that. Goofball should be chained to a battleship anchor and dropped in the central Pacific for what he put her through. >:(

[Voxxyn]

Oh come on, Frankie's life can't be perfect.

If Frankie were the kind of character that deserved to suffer such a cruel ordeal(like Duchess or Vicky the Babysitter or Mandy), or were an irritating Mary Sue-like character whose life is usually 100% perfect, then it would've been hilarious. But as it stands, she is already underappreciated and sympathetic as it is, so giving her an episode where she gets trashed from start-to-finish without any payback at all, isn't funny unless you hate her and/or love "bashing" humor.

And I'm sorry, but there is no excuse whatsover for the cruelty that happened in that episode. Goofball turning out to be an imaginary friend does not change his deliberately reckless behavior. And Frankie being wrong in the end does NOT AT ALL erase all the genuine hard work, dedication and kindness she's shown both before and since in the course of the series, to the point that it's easy to shrug it off with "bah, she deserved to miss the concert". It just doesn't.

[Cassini90125]

Well said, dude. :frankiesmile:

[Mr. Marshmallow]

No arguements here.

[rukift]

although I really don't feel like arguing over here, I think Goofball being "chained to a battleship anchor and dropped in the central Pacific" is a whole lot meaner than your sweet Frankie missing a concert. :|

[Cassini90125]

I don't care. He put someone I care very deeply about through hell and got away with it. I want vengence. :terrence:

[Voxxyn]

It was Frankie missing the concert she'd been waiting a long time to see... AFTER(and DESPITE) all the excessive amount of work she did that day, being embarassed in front of the entire house and getting verbally trashed by all of her friends, ALL at the hands of a complete jerk who gets away with it. AND it was a complete slap in the face to one of the show's most sympathetic and vulnerable characters--who has become even more so after that incident.

And I think the whole "human or imaginary" plotline was an excuse to hide the fact that the episode was nothing more than the "Let's Bash Frankie Foster Half-Hour!". If Frankie just pulled the clown nose instantly upon his arrival, and realized from the very beginning that Goofball was an imaginary friend--chances are things would've played out the EXACT SAME WAY they did in the episode, only replace the "Goof Goof McGoof" finale with Goofball deliberately creating a giant mess that destroys the entire house, just as Frankie was about to finally leave for the concert.

So, no, it's not just "sweet Frankie missing a concert".

[lucyrocks73]

I didn't read the entire thread before posting like I normally do, but let me say this:

HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF FRANKIE AND TREATED HER LIKE CRAP!!!

He can jump out a window for all I care.

And that is my two cents, for I must go put my little brother to bed.

-Marty 8-)

[Mr. Marshmallow]

I think I speak for everyone when I say that for a future warning to anyone who supports "Imposter's" or the character Goofball, I would suggest arming your ass from head to toe with bullet proof vests because any support for either of those two will probably get you shot around here.

Including me :scaryberry:. But seriously, this episode (much like "I Only have Surprise for you") seemed to just rely on the same hurtful joke: let's treat someone like dog crap for the entire program and make every single second, minute, and moment an agonizing living hell as many times as we could.

And that's what really hurts me about this episode. It had an idea that COULD have been used more wisely instead of just bashing Frankie over the head with a "you suck" baseball bat every 5 seconds. Frankie is too sweet, and has too big of a heart to honestly take any of this crap, she doesn't deserve it and neither did the viewers.

Even non Frankie fans can see this was practically a character assasination. The REAL "kill" part for me, the one that really hurt me when I watched this episode was how the scene and music played out when Frankie scrubbed the floors. The whole slow dissolve technique while she scrubbed and had that sad look on her face.

That just did it for me :'(, that just nailed it in that this was hell and that sadly, no payback was ever given. Frankie didn't have to apologize for JACK SQUATT! The only person who honestly deserved to apologize was Goofball, no character's behavior in that episode comes close to bring as LOW as Goofball's.

[kageri]

Goofball was a jerk, but I liked his voice and his pigeon walk and all the alternative names for Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends.

[Cassini90125]

The REAL "kill" part for me, the one that really hurt me when I watched this episode was how the scene and music played out when Frankie scrubbed the floors. The whole slow dissolve technique while she scrubbed and had that sad look on her face.

I cried during that part, it was so upsetting. It honestly hurt that much. I hate Goofball for that scene more than any other part of the episode. No one should have to go through a day like that, Frankie least of all. Doesn't she put up with enough as it is?

[Voxxyn]

I personally will forever hate this episode and loathe Goofball. "Time heals all wounds" doesn't apply to me here at all. It's been over a year since this episode first debuted, yet my hatred of it has only intensified, and the very thought of it's events STILL makes me feel very sad and hopeless. The only thing Ms. Faust's "defense" on Toon Zone did for me was make me believe that they're lying about "just trying to be funny" with this episode, because I fail to see the comedy in such cruel and malicious character bashing.

As much as I admire the Foster's staff for their talent, I've still yet to forgive them for allowing this episode to exist. "Setting A President" was a step in the right direction, but it's not enough to erase the traumatic memories of "Imposter's". I'm counting on Season 5 to prove that "SAP" wasn't a fluke, and that they've actually learned their lesson.

[Cassini90125]

who cares if some character no matter how sweet they are have a tough time in an episodes

Who cares? I won't bother dignifying that with a response.

I don't think she should get special treatmeant I don't think its fair

I was not aware that being treated with dignity and respect constitutes "special treatment". She certainly got neither in "Imposter's".

You don't seriously think I'm going to change my position on this, do you? Because I can assure you right now that that will never happen. It would be an act of betrayal as far as I'm concerned, and I am not going to betray the woman I love most in this world for any reason whatsoever.

oh and if you were to kill Goofball frankie wouldn't really like you very much
why becaus Goofball is an imaginary friend and you know how much she cares
about imaginary friends

I concede that point. However, it does not change how I feel in the slightest. I despise him for the hell he put her through and I always will.

Now I want to arguments here okay

Too late.

[Voxxyn]

The difference is, that episode you mentioned("The Sweet Stench of Success") was a crowd-pleaser that sent a valuable message about friendship, while "Imposter's" basically tells children that nice people finish last and jerks rule the world.

[kaytea]

will someone just lock this thread its causing to many agruments
and making people hate each other

oh and if it will make all you frankie fans happy I'll draw a picture
of Goofball in serious pain =D

[taranchula]

I really don't want to lock the thread, but I will advise to everyone to just chill out a little, I know some of you have strong opinions on the matter and I know there is nothing I can do or say to change those opinions, and that's okay.

I just hope everthing stays civil and does not elevate into an out of control mess, the episode aired the way it did and there is nothing any one of us can do to change it.

Now to counter balance all of this hate for Mr. Magee, I will say one positive thing about the character.... "I liked his tie", thank you!

[Cassini90125]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Every thread has it's loud moments now and then, particularly on emotionally charged topics like this one. It'll calm down on it's own, I think. 8-)

[Voxxyn]

My hatred is directed 100% towards the character and the episode, and NOT to anybody who might've enjoyed it. I admit I'm easily upset by false straw-man arguments like "Frankie's life can't always be perfect!" and "Foster's can't be happy-go-lucky all the time!", which explains why some of my posts on this matter can get heated. But I don't intend to insult or disrespect anybody else.

I'm sorry, but with what he did, it's nearly impossible for me to just "chill down" and accept things as they are. I know that the episode played out the way it did and that nothing will ever change it--which only infuriates me even more.

The only thing that could genuinely heal the wounds of this episode(Aside from some quality Frankie episodes in Season 5) is if Lauren, either on the production blog or a surprise post here, finally acknowledges just how painful this episode was to a lot of us, and promise to never do any more blatant "character bashing" episodes again. But I'm realistic enough to know that'd never actually happen, so I'm just hoping for Season 5 to deliver.

[kageri]

"I liked his tie", thank you!

Another somewhat positive thing about this episode: Frankie looked cute in the red nose.

[kaytea]

Another somewhat positive thing about this episode: Frankie looked cute in the red nose.

I know ^o^ :frankiesmile:

[Voxxyn]

I won't deny that she looked great in the clown nose, or that the title was clever, or that the premise(The possibility of a human disguising himself as an imaginary friend, NOT the anti-Frankie mentality) COULD'VE resulted into something superb.

But no 'positive' you can think of will justify the cruelty perpetrated by this episode and Goofball. :(

[Invader Bloo]

I don't care. He put someone I care very deeply about through hell and got away with it. I want vengence. :terrence:

You want me to do a Fanfic where he's stuck in a room with Cheese? That would be vengence. Cheese is so annoying Goofball would die.

[kaytea]

You want me to do a Fanfic where he's stuck in a room with Cheese? That would be vengence. Cheese is so annoying Goofball would die.
I think goofball is too laid back to even care XDD
to tale the truth

but its your story so do what you like

[Invader Bloo]

Oh yeah & Goo. ;)
I may start later on. Just for us Goofball haters.

[Voxxyn]

I'd twistedly delight at the idea of Goofball suffering for his crimes--although my REAL desire is for Frankie to get her long-overdue apology and penance for the way she got mistreated in that episode.

[Invader Bloo]

Part 1 is up.

[Sparky]

Part 1 is up.

??? Part 1 of what is up where? :P If you're talking about part 1 of the Imposter's ep is up online for download, please post this in the Episodes On Computer Thread. :)

edit: Oh, a story. You should have clarified. :) And maybe you should post a link to it here; one day this forum will be so full of posts that people won't be able to find it easily.

[Invader Bloo]

It's in the fanfic section. I personally don't care about episodes online now that the season DVDs are coming out. I'll post a link when I'm finished.

[BlooCheese]

I was just thinking. Goofball wasn't that awful to Frankie. Yes, he made her extremely miserable, but he did tell her that she took good care of him at the very end of the episode. At least give him credit for that.

[CCMars]

It's been a while since I last watched the episode, but was it ever clarified why Goofball was afraid of taking off his red nose? That annoyed me throughout the entire episode; there was no reason why he couldn't just show Frankie his elephant nose (while talking with her and Mr. Herriman within the PRIVACY of the latter's office) and be done with it.

[Voxxyn]

I was just thinking. Goofball wasn't that awful to Frankie. Yes, he made her extremely miserable, but he did tell her that she took good care of him at the very end of the episode. At least give him credit for that.

I fail to see how a quick throwaway compliment is supposed to make up for all the undeserved torture she endured that day. Unless the day comes that Goofball apologizes to Frankie and takes her to see one of her favorite bands in concert as penance, I'm not giving him any credit at all.

It's been a while since I last watched the episode, but was it ever clarified why Goofball was afraid of taking off his red nose? That annoyed me throughout the entire episode; there was no reason why he couldn't just show Frankie his elephant nose (while talking with her and Mr. Herriman within the PRIVACY of the latter's office) and be done with it.

Because, like I already said, the whole "human or imaginary" plot was just an excuse to hide the fact that the episode's real purpose was to be as cruel and malicious to Frankie as possible.

[BlooCheese]

Because, like I already said, the whole "human or imaginary" plot was just an excuse to hide the fact that the episode's real purpose was to be as cruel and malicious to Frankie as possible.

I don't think the creators were purposely, knowlingly, and intentionally trying to "be as cruel and malicious to Frankie as possible." I am unable to fathom why they would do that to their own creation. I think the interactions between Goofball and Frankie were originally meant as comedy, but they were not perceived as humorous. Goofball did give Frankie a horrible time, and I can see why you dislike him with great intensity. You can bash Goofball and I wouldn't really care, but I find that saying "the episode's real purpose was to be as cruel and malicious to Frankie as possible" is a little harsh and one-sided. If I have offended you in any way, I'm sorry.

I sense something bad coming....

[kageri]

I don't think the creators were purposely, knowlingly, and intentionally trying to "be as cruel and malicious to Frankie as possible." I am unable to fathom why they would do that to their own creation. I think the interactions between Goofball and Frankie were originally meant as comedy, but they were not perceived as humorous.

I agree; I do not believe at all that the creators purposely tried to be as cruel to Frankie as they possibly could. The writers on the show clearly care about the characters, so I don't believe that was their intent.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

It has happened before. TV creators have been purposely harsh on their characters, sometimes for reasons probably more deeper then ratings or plot points. Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly has a similar trait.

He's a sadist to his characters, especially in Angel's show, you notice things always seem to get worse for certain characters more and more. Who knows whether or not this was an attack on Frankie or not, there's no way to know.

I don't think it was but I can certainly see a strong arguement that it could be. It happened in "Batman Beyond" and "Extreme Ghostbusters" and "Ranma 1/2", trust me it's happened.

[Cassini90125]

I think the writers did try to write a funny episode but it backfired completely. Maybe they got carried away with the Frankie bashing aspect of the "story" and lost perspective, I don't know. I do know that they deserve credit for making Frankie someone that's so easy to care about, and as much as I hate the episode and as horrible as it made me feel, I tip my hat to them for creating a character that can make me feel that strongly about anything.

[DoubleLatte]

I fail to see how a quick throwaway compliment is supposed to make up for all the undeserved torture she endured that day. Unless the day comes that Goofball apologizes to Frankie and takes her to see one of her favorite bands in concert as penance, I'm not giving him any credit at all.

I'm pretty sure that was done to soften up Goofball after being guaranteed immediate dislike from viewers throughout the entire episode. The actual goal here was to get us to absolutely ABHOR the guy (which they did successfully) and wish for someone to pull the rug from under him at the end. Things turned out completely different; he wasn't a phony, but Frankie still missed her concert and put up with his demands and attitude.
Had I been in Frankie's place, that IF would have been nursing a black eye by the time he left. But that's just me.

[kageri]

Had I been in Frankie's place, that IF would have been nursing a black eye by the time he left. But that's just me.

I know, right? Possibly even more grueling than the Frankie torture was, for me, the "PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE! DO SOMETHING! ARRGGH" feeling.

[Voxxyn]

I'm still not convinced of that, to be honest. I won't doubt that the original pitch from which this episode resulted could've simply been an innocent suggestion for the "human potentially disguised as an imaginary friend" idea, instead of someone saying "LET'S DUMP ON SO-AND-SO!"... but what I do know is that Craig Lewis' script ended up being a very hurtful one.

Maybe I'm a little too blunt in my view, but I just don't see the humor in what Frankie had to endure in that episode. I'm mad at Lewis for writing the episode the way it was, and even though I will nonetheless continue to admire the great talent of the entire staff and crew, I'm disappointed by how they actually went along with it. What you guys are saying about them "only trying to be humorous" isn't really making me feel any better. I'm still hurt.

[Cassini90125]

You have my sympathy. I can't make myself believe that the writers really wanted to hurt anyone as much as they did, fan or character, but you're right, there was nothing funny or entertaining about that episode.

[BlooCheese]

I'm sorry Voxxyn. I know how important Frankie is to you and how much she means to you.

[Sparky]

Can you guys do me a favor and start an episode discussion thread for Imposter's Home and take some of the conversation over there? Because there's a difference between discussing the character of Goofball and the episode as a whole. Ya know?

[Voxxyn]

I don't think it's possible to discuss Goofball without discussing the consequences he had on Frankie. The only thing left would be unrelated remarks like "I liked his elephant nose" and "I hated his 'uh'-ing".

[Sparky]

Forget I said anything. ******. Knock yourselves out then.

[taranchula]

I don't think it's possible to discuss Goofball without discussing the consequences he had on Frankie. The only thing left would be unrelated remarks like "I liked his elephant nose" and "I hated his 'uh'-ing".

And his tie, you at least got to like his tie! :jk:

[Invader Bloo]

Forget I said anything. ******. Knock yourselves out then.

LOL.8D

[billytheskink]

That place...
Up There...
With the Bacon...

[Kzinistzerg]

I rewatched this episode. it;s not as bad as I thought when I first saw it. It's definitely one of the worse episodes, but ain actuaality, I think Goof ball, if he just came to Fosters, was probably more just "hey, people do stuff for me" than anything else.

[Nathander]

Really, you can describe Goofball in three words:

Big Fat Jerkface.

In all honesty, while I don't despise the character, I have no real love for him either. For the most part, I agree with Kzinistzerg in the fact that he was just mooching and not actually actively attempting to hurt Frankie, despite the fact that that's what occured.

Yet at the same time, I think people take way, way, way to much offense at the character and the episode he was in. Don't get me wrong by any means, Frankie fans; I'm a Frankie fan also, though not to the point where I'm a fanboy. And yes, she was treated very poorly and there was nothing in the episode that was actually entertaining and seemed primarily as a "dump on Frankie" episode, which is why I hated it so much. But whether there was actual malice intended in this episode, or if it was merely intended to make us sympathetic towards Frankie, is beyond me (or if the crew just made a blunder and released an episode that attacked a character with one of the highest fanbases), though I honestly don't there was intended ill will. In my mind, it wasn't so much an attack on Frankie as much as it was actually showing the viewer what she pretty much has to do day in, day out and giving a clearer picture as to what she has to go through. And while Goofball was a jerk, I don't think he was a malicious jerk; he was kind of like Bloo in the regard that he did things without thinking what kind of repercussions they might have. Not that he was anywhere near as good a character or entertaining, mind you.

Was Goofball a jerk? Yes. Was Goofball intentionally trying to hurt Frankie? Probably not. Did Frankie deserve what she went through? No. Is this event in her life even worth remembering?

No.

Again, I'm not trying to dumb down what Frankie went through; it was undeniably harsh, and that was the main reason I hated that episode. But at the same time, I heavily doubt the events in this episode will come back to haunt her, or at least bother her for years, if even months. This is due mainly to the fact that Goofball is gone, and hopefully we'll never see the little jerk again. He gave her quite a lashing, but he's no longer there to constantly remind her of it. Quite different from the case of a little eight year old boy who was embarrassed in front of all his friends, by all of his friends, who had made him go through an unnecessary guilt trip so he'd make a fool out of himself. And this was under the guise of what his best friend considered a birthday party. (Please GOD don't flame me. Like I said, Frankie's lashing was unbelievably harsh, but I still say Mac's in "IOHSFY" was even more so).

Anyway, to conclude:

Goofball was a jerk, but not enough of a jerk to be worth remembering or worrying over.

[duck2k]

Goofball Magee = Definitely a jerk, but funny too. Sometimes I like the characters that act like total buttheads, because they sooner or later expose their weaknesses; when they do - the protaganist can move in for the kill:scaryberry:

[Voxxyn]

Nathander, from a logical point of view, you are absolutely right. But it doesn't change my hatred of the episode and Goofball, nor does it make me feel any better knowing that the Foster's crew actually thought it would be funny and that Cartoon Network even broadcast it in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong about feeling it was a purposeful attack, but the episode does too much of a good job on making me feel like it was. Frankie's supermarket woes didn't really have anything to do with the actual storyline of a human disguising himself as an IF, yet there it is anyway. And I still don't get what was supposed to be so funny about Frankie being denied from going to the concert, despite all the extra work she did throughout the entire episode, just so that she can do EVEN MORE WORK.

I'm sorry, but it's not so easy to just forget about this episode and what it did.

[Jabberwocky]

The episode was really annoying to watch, but I think a lot of that is because up until the very end Goofball is portrayed as a teenager pretending to be an imaginary friend who gets away with everything, which makes everything he did ten thousand times as annoying. I didn't mind him as much after Frankie ripped his nose off and realized she'd been falsely accusing him for twenty minutes. Which I should have seen coming from a mile away, but. His antagonizing wasn't totally unprovoked.

Personally I didn't think it was malicious; IOHSFY and Everyone Knows It's Bendy were worse. Yeah, Frankie got screwed, but she just missed a concert and had to do a bunch of extra chores. Which happens like, a lot. It's not like anyone was plotting her demise.

[Voxxyn]

:(

Just missed a concert? Just did some extra chores?

You are COMPLETELY TRIVIALIZING what Frankie had to endure in that episode. Simply missing a concert or working a little harder than usual is one thing. It's another thing entirely for these things to happen thanks to a devious moocher who spends the entire day taking advantage of someone. And since it happened to a character that is already very sympathetic and underappreciated, it was simply hurtful and meanspirited.

"Imposter's Home" is INFINITELY WORSE than "Bendy" ever was. Bendy was unmistakeably evil, but what he did to Bloo and the others is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what Goofball did to Frankie. They didn't get completely abused, overworked and cruelly denied from something they were really anticipating, like it was the case with Frankie.

By the time the episode was over, I didn't AT ALL care about the whole "human or imaginary" story. All I had on my mind was revulsion about what happened to my favorite character, and extreme disappointment towards the entire crew for actually thinking the entire episode would be a good idea. To this day, I still worry that the Foster's crew could potentially slip and create another hurtful monstrosity on an episode like this one.

[Jabberwocky]

Frankie brought missing the concert and scrubbing the floors on herself by pretending to be an imaginary friend.

Bendy wasn't that bad (I love Bendy, shh), but IOHSFY made me cringe. So did the Foster's Goes to Europe ending.

Goofball (and Bloo) ate all the food and made Frankie do laundry and made a mess and Frankie was only furious with him because she thought he was a teenager. It's not his fault she didn't believe him, if someone falsely accused me in public constantly I'd try to annoy them too.

Sorry if I offended you, I just didn't think it was all that bad. Of course, because I don't like Frankie, I wasn't emotionally involved. I don't like seeing Bloo bullied, so I can see where this would hurt to watch if you love Frankie.

[Cassini90125]

she thought he was a teenager. It's not his fault she didn't believe him,

Yes, it is his fault. He could have taken off that stupid rubber nose anytime and showed her his trunk, a feature that human teens don't have.

[Jabberwocky]

Did she specify?

[Mr. Marshmallow]

The odd thing about Bendy is while it is obvious he is more evil then Goofball, the fact of the matter is that there are different kinds of evils. And if I had to compare these guys antics to each other, regardless of INTENTION, I would say Goofball's antics are extremely more evil then what Bendy does.

Bloo doesn't really have anything to do his whole life, except play around and look for something that interests him. Bendy was sticking minor pranks and incidents on Bloo because he is in fact an ass, an evil one. But Goofball's actual effect was much more evil then his original intention in the first place.

And that's the whole differece, who DOES something. Bloo has zero responsibility. Frankie does everything around the house and not only does everyone pretty much agree she gets jack as far as appreciation goes, but Goofball didn't care what he did or ate or how it affected Frankie at all.

Bloo doesn't spend his own money for groceries, Bloo doesn't keep the house clean, Bloo doesn't put the baby IFs to bed, Bloo doesn't even go out for grocieries, but Frankie does. She does alot around the house and she doesn't need to be taking guff from some smart ass jerk who's purpousely being lazy.

Frankie doesn't deserve that kind of treatment for all she's done, Bloo to an extent does. Sorry Bloo fans, but Bloo has done some pretty bad things himself and his selfishness has offended me and Mac plenty of times. In a way, Bloo had some of it coming. He's no devil but he's no angel either.

[Cassini90125]

Did she specify?

It is an accepted principle of argument that the burden of proof is on the positive. Goofball is the one making a positive assertion, that being that he IS an Imaginary Friend; it is up to him to prove it. What happened to Frankie in that unbearable episode rests squarely on his sorry shoulders.

[Jabberwocky]

It is an accepted principle of argument that the burden of proof is on the positive. Goofball is the one making a positive assertion, that being that he IS an Imaginary Friend; it is up to him to prove it. What happened to Frankie in that unbearable episode rests squarely on his sorry shoulders.

He could have been ridiculously naive but whatever, I don't like him enough to defend him anymore. :(

[Voxxyn]

Brought it on herself?!?

Frankie works her dang rear off EVERY SINGLE DAY; she is the HEART of Foster's. It's because of HER that Foster's runs smoothly instead of being in chaos. She did not at all deserve what Goofball did to her.

If you dislike her, fine. But reading that she "brought missing the concert and scrubbing the floors on herself by dressing up as an imaginary friend" made my blood boil.

[Jabberwocky]

Woah, woah, holy comma on a drama llama. I never said she deserved it, I said she missed the concert because she was pretending to be an imaginary friend. She didn't deserve the consequences, but it was her mistake. I also never said I dislike her, I said I don't like her, meaning I don't care for her either way, to illustrate the fact that I'm biased because I had no emotion invested into what was going on. I thought it was funny the first time I watched it.

Man, this topic is scary.

[Cassini90125]

Guys, I understand that emotions ride very high on this subject, but let's watch the language, okay? :P

[Nathander]

Nathander, from a logical point of view, you are absolutely right. But it doesn't change my hatred of the episode and Goofball, nor does it make me feel any better knowing that the Foster's crew actually thought it would be funny and that Cartoon Network even broadcast it in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong about feeling it was a purposeful attack, but the episode does too much of a good job on making me feel like it was. Frankie's supermarket woes didn't really have anything to do with the actual storyline of a human disguising himself as an IF, yet there it is anyway. And I still don't get what was supposed to be so funny about Frankie being denied from going to the concert, despite all the extra work she did throughout the entire episode, just so that she can do EVEN MORE WORK.

I'm sorry, but it's not so easy to just forget about this episode and what it did.

And you're more than entitled to those feelings. I'm not saying "don't be angry"; really, I was just saying "I'm not angry", though that's not entirely true as, again, I'm a Frankie fan and it hurt to see what she was going through. But the fact is, I have a hard time really worrying about it; I'm sure Frankie was hurt at the time but has moved on. Does that mean it was acceptable? Not in the least. And I can't blame you in any way for refusing to really forgive for the episode; in a lot of ways, I feel the same (as you can probably tell) about "I Only Have Surprise for You".

Frankie doesn't deserve that kind of treatment for all she's done, Bloo to an extent does. Sorry Bloo fans, but Bloo has done some pretty bad things himself and his selfishness has offended me and Mac plenty of times. In a way, Bloo had some of it coming. He's no devil but he's no angel either.

Absolutely. While I was no fan of "Bendy", I had less of a problem with how badly Bendy messed with Bloo then I did with Goofball messing (if he indeed was and wasn't just a moron who was accidentally malicious, which is what I think he was) with Frankie. Whereas Bloo has done plenty to get messed over once in awhile to set the karmic balance straight, Frankie hasn't done anything to deserve such a thing. Not a blooming thing.

But hey, that's life. There are lots of occasions were good people get screwed and bad don't. That doesn't make the situation any more acceptable, though.

Really, in my mind, the only good thing that came out of the episode was seeing Frankie with the clown nose on at the end. That was adorable.

On another note, I get the impression that Goofball, for the most part, really is dumb as a sack of potatoes that've been smashed with a jackhammer. He lives in another country, for Pete's sakes! I don't remember if they explained it in the episode because it's been so long since I've seen it, but if anyone can tell me how he did it, just how in the hell did he get down to Foster's?

[kageri]

Really, you can describe Goofball in three words:

Big Fat Jerkface.

In all honesty, while I don't despise the character, I have no real love for him either. For the most part, I agree with Kzinistzerg in the fact that he was just mooching and not actually actively attempting to hurt Frankie, despite the fact that that's what occured.

Yet at the same time, I think people take way, way, way to much offense at the character and the episode he was in. Don't get me wrong by any means, Frankie fans; I'm a Frankie fan also, though not to the point where I'm a fanboy. And yes, she was treated very poorly and there was nothing in the episode that was actually entertaining and seemed primarily as a "dump on Frankie" episode, which is why I hated it so much. But whether there was actual malice intended in this episode, or if it was merely intended to make us sympathetic towards Frankie, is beyond me (or if the crew just made a blunder and released an episode that attacked a character with one of the highest fanbases), though I honestly don't there was intended ill will. In my mind, it wasn't so much an attack on Frankie as much as it was actually showing the viewer what she pretty much has to do day in, day out and giving a clearer picture as to what she has to go through. And while Goofball was a jerk, I don't think he was a malicious jerk; he was kind of like Bloo in the regard that he did things without thinking what kind of repercussions they might have. Not that he was anywhere near as good a character or entertaining, mind you.

Was Goofball a jerk? Yes. Was Goofball intentionally trying to hurt Frankie? Probably not. Did Frankie deserve what she went through? No. Is this event in her life even worth remembering?

No.

Again, I'm not trying to dumb down what Frankie went through; it was undeniably harsh, and that was the main reason I hated that episode. But at the same time, I heavily doubt the events in this episode will come back to haunt her, or at least bother her for years, if even months. This is due mainly to the fact that Goofball is gone, and hopefully we'll never see the little jerk again. He gave her quite a lashing, but he's no longer there to constantly remind her of it. Quite different from the case of a little eight year old boy who was embarrassed in front of all his friends, by all of his friends, who had made him go through an unnecessary guilt trip so he'd make a fool out of himself. And this was under the guise of what his best friend considered a birthday party. (Please GOD don't flame me. Like I said, Frankie's lashing was unbelievably harsh, but I still say Mac's in "IOHSFY" was even more so).

Anyway, to conclude:

Goofball was a jerk, but not enough of a jerk to be worth remembering or worrying over.

I agree completely. I love Frankie, and she didn't deserve that kind of treatment, but she's not one to brood over it. She'll probably never give him a second thought.

I don't remember if they explained it in the episode because it's been so long since I've seen it, but if anyone can tell me how he did it, just how in the hell did he get down to Foster's?

Maybe Foster's is the only establishment of its kind. Eurotrish?

[Nathander]

Maybe Foster's is the only establishment of its kind. Eurotrish?

True, and it would seem that it most likely is the only one of its kind. However, Eurotrish was actually given up for adoption; Goofball somehow managed to get down there on his own, which means he somehow left the country on his own and wandered there. While we don't know how close the state Foster's is located is to the border, it still doesn't change the fact that this idiot was able to get across the border by himself. At least, I'm assuming it was by himself, considering the fact that his family said they drove down from Canada to get him.

While I guess it's not entirely unfeasible that Goofball was stupid enough to just wander down there, I'd still like to know how he, you know, got through the border security located between Canada and the USA, presumably without a passport.

[Cassini90125]

The border with Canada used to be virtually unpatrolled, although that's probably no longer the case.

[Nathander]

Maybe not patrolled, but I'd expect you would've still had to have had a passport in order to get through, seeing as how you're entering into another country.

[Jabberwocky]

Actually we went to Niagara Falls and didn't need one. You just need a drivers license and a birth certificate.

[One Radical Dude]

Gang, please stay on topic. Thank you, sirs! Have a great time! ;)

[Sparky]

I dunno, wondering how Goofball got to Foster's seems a perfectly on-topic thing to talk about...

(and its a pleasant change from the usual tone of the conversation in here)

[kageri]

I mentioned Eurotrish because apparently, while she was given up for adoption and didn't get there herself, her family sent her all the way to another continent just to get her to Foster's. Which supports the "Foster's is one-of-a-kind" theory. How Goofball walked/hitchhiked/whatever to Foster's from Canadia is another question altogether.

[Cassini90125]

It's entirely possible that the Canadians smuggled him in, just to get him out of Canada. ;)

Seriously, I have no idea how he got here, none at all. My best guess is that he was simply lost.

[Sparky]

And don't you think Eurotrish's family might have sent her to an American IF home instead of one in Europe simply to get her as far away as possible? ;)

[billytheskink]

Eurotrish could have been imagined by a Europhile...

Goofball might have just wound up on one of those poorly-named trains going from that place, up there, with the bacon... and made his way to Fosters from the train station.

[duck2k]

Goofball probably did it "hobo" style - look for an empty boxcar and made his way into it, then played a harmonica all the way until he wound up at Foster's. I know that is far-fetched, but think of the possibilities!:frankiesmile:

[BabyElephant]

It's been a while since I last went to Canada, but most of the border is completely unguarded. Yes, there are checkpoints at all road crossings, and you'll need ID (in fact, they're going to start requiring passports to visit Canada...this may have already happened, actually), but there are miles and miles of border with no guards or fences at all. Goofball could have wandered over quite easily.

[kageri]

And don't you think Eurotrish's family might have sent her to an American IF home instead of one in Europe simply to get her as far away as possible? ;)

Touche. I never even thought of that.

[LaBlooGirl]

I don't find Goofball all THAT bad, in the end, didn't he act appreciative of Frankie by calling her "all right"? (Which for him was meaningful.) And to top it off, gave her a clown nose? (Also his meaningful way of saying he likes someone.)

Hey I used to HATE Bloo because of the way he could be so mean and selfish sometimes, until I began to understand him better. After that, I not only began to like Bloo better, but now I just plain out love him.

Since we've only seen Goofball in one ep. and we don't really know all there is to know about him, maybe he should be given a little benefit of the doubt.

Don't get me wrong, I love Frankie too and I think she deserves a real handsome guy who treats her like a queen, and has all the IFs think she's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but we all know that real life doesn't always give appreciation to those who work hard.

[Voxxyn]

You're right that real life isn't perfect... but isn't Foster's a children's cartoon? Isn't it supposed to provide an ESCAPE from the harsh realities of life? I'm not saying that everything should be 100% perfect, but at the same time, the writers go WAY TOO FAR with the not-so-happy episodes.

This is why Mrs. Faust's defense on the ToonZone forums only hurt me even more. She harped on the importance of not making everything 100% happy--when the episode in question basically made Frankie's life 100% miserable. The latter is as much of an unhealthy extreme as the former.

Frankie is already underappreciated and sympathetic as it is, and the show has had it's share of gags and jokes at her expense. These are usually funny and even hilarious, since they're done for humor. But that episode was simply hurtful.

I WILL say this though: I'm not completely against the return of Goofball and his family. In fact, if they were to make an unexpected cameo appearance in a future episode, in a way continuing how Frankie and Goofball seemed to be on good terms at the very end(One of the episode's few positives), it would actually make me feel quite a bit better.

[LaBlooGirl]

You're right that real life isn't perfect... but isn't Foster's a children's cartoon? Isn't it supposed to provide an ESCAPE from the harsh realities of life? I'm not saying that everything should be 100% perfect, but at the same time, the writers go WAY TOO FAR with the not-so-happy episodes.

This is why Mrs. Faust's defense on the ToonZone forums only hurt me even more. She harped on the importance of not making everything 100% happy--when the episode in question basically made Frankie's life 100% miserable. The latter is as much of an unhealthy extreme as the former.

Frankie is already underappreciated and sympathetic as it is, and the show has had it's share of gags and jokes at her expense. These are usually funny and even hilarious, since they're done for humor. But that episode was simply hurtful.

I WILL say this though: I'm not completely against the return of Goofball and his family. In fact, if they were to make an unexpected cameo appearance in a future episode, in a way continuing how Frankie and Goofball seemed to be on good terms at the very end(One of the episode's few positives), it would actually make me feel quite a bit better.

Well, it IS a cartoon, but if we didn't have some things a little on the sad or unhappy side, we couldn't have Wilt without an arm or eye, which is a sad/tragic thing in itself.
And then we'd expect that GWH would have some lame "fairytale" reason for Wilt's injuries, and then I'd lose all respect for the show.
So that being said, I kind of support Lauren's views.

[Voxxyn]

Again, I did NOT say I want the show to be 100% happy. Certain aspects about Wilt's character(like you mentioned) further add to his highly sympathetic nature, and are meant to appeal strictly to the hardcore fans while going over the heads of most children and casual fans. And "Good Wilt Hunting" is basically guaranteed to have some kind of happy ending(which doesn't necessarily have to be a perfect fairytale one), as payoff for his years of suffering and getting taken advantage of.

The Wilt example is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from what happened to Frankie in IHFUMEUP. Lauren is right about conflict, I'm not doubting that. But she cited the importance of not making everything happy and perfect all the time, in defense on an episode that did the exact opposite towards Frankie. That's why I felt hurt by her response.

[Invader Bloo]

I HATE Goofball! I'd hate him even if he'd basically totured Frankie. He wasn'tfunny & his episode sucked butt.:terrence:

[Medikor]

Goofball was a hard character to put up with as a Frankie fan. I'm not a fanboy (at least I try not to be) and I enjoyed the episode despit the very hard time Frankie had. I think most people read a little to hard into the episode and forget that it was all meant in the name of fun.
Yes. Frankie had the worst day imaginable but I couldant stop laughing when I saw the look on her face when the others came from the concert that she missed. I was also rolling on the floor when Frankie pulled off Goofball's nose and froze for a good ten seconds in shock. I don't find this episode funny because Frankie has a hard time, I really feel for her. I laugh, and enjoy it, because I can relate. We all have had very bad days where absolutly EVERYTHING goes wrong. And we all have had a Goofball in our lives too.
I'm sure that was what the writers intended and not merely give Frankie a hard day out of spite. It may seem like they have, but I'm sure that isant the truthe. This episode was bown to happen simply because of Frankies job and personality. If anything, it makes us feel for Frankie even more because we see how hard her job can be when an extreme case (Goofball) happens.
Look on the bright side: I'm sure Lauren can see the negativety fans have around this episode and give use another wonderful Frankie episode on the scale of "Frankie My Dear".:D
P.S- Vox, I don't think you should feel like Laren hurt you (at least, not too much) because I don't think that was the intention she had for us Frankie fans. I think this episode was just a good intention that went sour at the worst. Kind of like makeing a snowman and the torso makes a get away and becomes a giant snow-boulder of chaos.

[Voxxyn]

Those two moments you enjoyed so much(her reaction at both the others coming back and upon learning that Goofball is indeed an IF) were among the most HURTFUL to me, and were actually the ones that convinced me in the first place(rightly or wrongly, but that's how I honestly FELT) that the episode was an attack on Frankie. In fact, just seeing them mentioned has only worsened my mood. And seeing her suffer and cruelly denied from beginning-to-end is "in the name of fun"?

It made us feel for Frankie alright. But there was NO real payoff at the end for Frankie whatsover in the episode--or the entire series afterwards, actually. "Setting A President" came the closest, but it was ultimately a hollow victory as she ended up giving back the Presidential job. I am trying to keep an open mind about future Frankie episodes... but just the fact that they allowed "Imposter's" to exist in the first place has cast a pessimistic and hopeless cloud in my feelings.

[Cassini90125]

Those two moments you enjoyed so much(her reaction at both the others coming back and upon learning that Goofball is indeed an IF) were among the most HURTFUL to me.

You and me both, pal. But the very worst moment of all was when she found out she wasn't going to see the concert at all. I cried, I openly admit it. It hurt so much to see her in such misery, and it hurt even more because there wasn't a dang thing I could do about it, no way to help her, no way to comfort her. Nothing on TV has ever affected me as deeply as that sad moment. :'(

[koosie]

You and me both, pal. But the very worst moment of all was when she found out she wasn't going to see the concert at all. I cried, I openly admit it. It hurt so much to see her in such misery, and it hurt even more because there wasn't a dang thing I could do about it, no way to help her, no way to comfort her. Nothing on TV has ever affected me as deeply as that sad moment. :'(

I'll admit it, both me and Greeny made audible noises of disbelief at that moment.

Isn't that what great art does though, provoke an emotional response?
Cartoons are as much great art as Turner or Dali, cave paintings are cartoons I always thought. A window into someones soul that opens one up to ours in the way we respond.

[Cassini90125]

That is very true. I just wish it had been a different window. :(

[koosie]

Yeh seriously. Maybe it was the way it panned out or maybe the way it was drawn but it made you feel like every dissappointed rejected moment you'd ever felt. I mean that's genius really. I think the word Kafka-esquecomes pretty close. The feeling of turning into a big bug nobody likes.

Goofball was just an ingredient in it. He was so much like a teenage boy, he was desparately annoying, but all imaginary friends are at least a little bit annoying to somebody.

[Medikor]

I'm kinda starting to think there's something wrong with me. I can see how you all REALLY dislike the episode. Maybe my sence of humor is twisted or something...:(
But like I said, I didant laugh at the episode because I liked seeing Frankie have a hard time. I thought it was just funny. I can understand how it can be seen as downright hateful to Frankie that she had to go through all that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone by trying to explaine why I enjoyed the episode. That wasant my intent at all.
Maybe I've mellowed out as I've gotten older, or simply because I can relate to Frankie (haveing two little monster brothers that always gang up against you is murder!8D ) and the horrible day she had. I know I've had days where everything got progressavly worse. I guess I'm just able to look back at those days and laugh at them rather then continue to beat myself up over them.
About the only positive I can think about with this episode being made
is that those who made it obviously know of the negative feedback it's garnerd and won't make one like it again.
Anyway, about Goofball going to Fosters, wouldant that have been because Fosters is the only place of it's kind in the world? If so, I can understand why Goofball was sent there from Canada. That, or he got lost and some locals pointed him to Fosters.

[kageri]

"Setting A President" came the closest, but it was ultimately a hollow victory as she ended up giving back the Presidential job.

I don't think it was necessarily a hollow victory. Frankie discovered in that episode how loved she was by the house's residents, and quite nobly gave Mr. Herriman back his job of her own free will. So ultimately, it was a learning experience. And now she will no longer have to wonder if she'd be getting more money if she had Herriman's job.

[Voxxyn]

Koosie is right; I believe that cartoons are a legitimate form of art(And SHOULD be treated as such). And I think it says a lot for a "silly kiddy show" like Foster's that certain moments and episodes have affected me and others in such a way.

But I still think they crossed the line, and crossed it way too far. Frankie is sympathetic and underappreciated as it is without the "help" of this episode; if you know that and dislike her anyway, I don't think you'll ever change your mind. THAT is why it gave me the feeling that it was deliberately trying to abuse and destroy her.

If I seem upset everytime I talk about Goofball and his starring role, then good, because that's how I honestly feel, even to this day. I hope Lauren was/is able to understand just how hurtful IHFUMEUP truly was. Arguments about conflict and "not wanting to make the show 100% happy all the time" don't change the fact that what happened to Frankie was just cruel and wrong.

[Medikor]

Yes, Voxxyn, Frankie IS underappreceated and this episode was obbviously hurtful to Frankie's fans. But Craig and Lauren seem to be very good people and I'm sure that they didant make Goofball for the soul purpose of hurting us.
I don't think they intended for Goofball to be hated to this degree. I can almost forgive him since he leaves Frankie and Fosters on good terms. But there are characters that take on a life of their own and almost write themselves. I think that was the case with Goofball.
I think taht Frankie missing her concert was important. It was the last straw needed to push her over the edge and lead to her final confrontation with Goofball. Don't get me wrong, I love Frankie and it wasant nice to see her suffer. But I did enjoy the episode. I guess I was just able to see the humour in the episode.
I'm not trying to defend Goofball, just trying to help everyone try and accept the episode and maybe, somehow, grow to appreceate it.

[Voxxyn]

:( If you actually believe that Frankie missing her concert was "important", then I'm sorry, but you stand no chance whatsover of changing my mind about the episode. That traumatic event is AT THE VERY HEART of why I hate it so much.

In fact, the OPPOSITE is true: if Goofball makes a return appearance, in which he does something to Frankie that makes up for the horrible day she had when they first met, I might be able to tolerate and maybe even like him. But I will NEVER be able to "accept" or "appreciate" the episode itself. Call it 'forgiving but not forgetting'... that is, if the 'forgive' part ever gets a chance to happen.

[Medikor]

You know, Vox, you're really makeing me dislike thise episode.8D I can really see how much of a personal hell it was for poor poor Frankie.:(

[LaBlooGirl]

I'm glad there are people like Voxx on here, who point out how a form of art like a cartoon (yes I agree with that completely) can sometimes affect people to this degree. That's why I like to get into the deeper discussions, it makes it all the more interesting. :)

[Mr. Marshmallow]

I'm glad there are people like Voxx on here, who point out how a form of art like a cartoon (yes I agree with that completely) can sometimes affect people to this degree. That's why I like to get into the deeper discussions, it makes it all the more interesting. :)

It's an important and very truthful fact LaBloogirl, Vox is right, episodes can greatly affect people and even the most smallest or largest of scenes or words can make or break a person. One bad line for example can change a person's view on a character.

And one episode can do a lot of damage, which is what I feel Goofball did. Anyone who still doubts this episode wasn't a Frankie basher need only to watch the scene where Frankie is scrubbing the floors after being denied going to her concert. Watch the music, her reactions, and the pacing.

All 3 of those things in that SINGLE scene are the key realizations to just how badly and painfully Frankie was screwed over here.

[Voxxyn]

Frankie missing the concert and scrubbing the floors was indeed the fatal "point of no return" blow for me. On it's own, it would've hurt badly enough. But the entire episode before that unfortunate moment was built and set up as if the underappreciated maid would put the mooching jerk in his place at the end and emerge victorious as reward for her suffering.

That never happened. Instead, the exact opposite happened; the WORST possible outcome allowed by the TV-Y7 rating. It was heartbreaking and borderline traumatizing.

[Cassini90125]

And one episode can do a lot of damage, which is what I feel Goofball did. Anyone who still doubts this episode wasn't a Frankie basher need only to watch the scene where Frankie is scrubbing the floors after being denied going to her concert. Watch the music, her reactions, and the pacing.

Exactly. I have never felt anything as agonizing, never felt so much aguish for another person, real or not. It's a moment I will never forget as long as I live.

[duck2k]

The scrubbing floors scene made me think of Disney's Cinderella scrubbing the floors, only to have Lucifer add insult to injury and track his feet all over it with ashes. Goofball was the Lucifer in that fer sure! It is a good thing Frankie has a ray of hope...:frankiemad:

[Voxxyn]

That heartbreaking scene was indeed a "tribute"(In quotations because I don't think it's much of an honor to be referenced in that episode) to Disney's Cinderella, right down to the mice.

Because of that blatant reference, I can no longer think of Cinderella without thinking about this episode... and thus feel crappy by knowing that Cinderella had a happy ending while Frankie didn't.

[Sparky]

But Cinderella's life was full of hardships before the one "episode" of her life that we, the audience, got to see. Frankie has many many more episodes ahead of her, and surely a happy ending is waiting somewhere down the line. ;)

[Cassini90125]

They could do an episode where a wealthy snob in Romania adopts Duchess, and Mom relents and lets Bloo come home. Actually, I think that would make more people than just Frankie pretty happy.

[LaBlooGirl]

They could do an episode where a wealthy snob in Romania adopts Duchess, and Mom relents and lets Bloo come home. Actually, I think that would make more people than just Frankie pretty happy.

LOL You bet it would! 8D

[duck2k]

Frankie wins the Power Ball - there is a happy ending for her! Oops gotta stay on topic - ummm...and Goofball gets arrested, yeah that's it!:frankiesmile:

[Medikor]

Goofball getting arrested would sure make a lot of us happy!8D

[Cassini90125]

It would be a shame if after being arrested he was shot while trying to "escape". ;)

[BabyElephant]

I just thought of something...if Goofball is Canadian, why does he have a Brooklyn accent? Maybe the kid who imagined him watched a lot of TV shows set in New York or something, but still...:-/

[Medikor]

Not all us Canuks say "Eh" at the end of every sentance you know.;) 8D

[BabyElephant]

Not all us Canuks say "Eh" at the end of every sentance you know.;) 8D

Riiiight...and I suppose next you'll want us to believe that you don't all sit around in flannel shirts all day eating back bacon and maple syrup... :)

[Voxxyn]

As much as the twisted side to me would love to see Goofball in extreme pain, that's not what I really want.

I hope Sparky is right when she says that a happy ending is waiting down the line for Frankie. I wish there was a way of knowing if Craig, Lauren and everybody else have realized just how negative and viciously cruel IHFUMEUP truly was, because I'm still not completely convinced. I'm still aching for a Frankie episode that will celebrate her character and use her to her fullest potential instead of burying and abusing her. "Setting A President" is a step in the right direction, but it's not enough.

[Medikor]

Don't worry, Vox. Craig and Lauren visit this sit to give us a heads-up once in a while. So I'm sure that they take the time to read what we have to say amongst ourselves. I'm sure that a great Frankie episode is on the horizon!:D

[montitech]

It seems like this thread is Basically a "I Love Frankie and Hate this episode"

I Liked this episode, I think Goofball was funny.

I would agree that lfe was misserable on frankie, However I think that was the neccisary in for the story. It was not ment to be a Bash on Frankie, but ment to be a fun.

I Thought it was a great Cat and Mouse game. Frankie thinking that Goofball was fake and unable to get anyone to believe her. I actually believed that goofball was not imaginary until the end when she took off his nose.

I thought it was funny that MAC was the only one who reconized Frankie when she wore the Red Nose.

I do not want to sound raceist or anything, but I think GoofBall is a good Canadian personallity. I do not live in Canada, but I can see Toronto on a clear day. I think goofballs character matches SCTV humor better than Saterday Night Live or Flying Circus. I know this is a week argument, but maybe some Canadians can give their view of If they feel Goofball makes a decent Canadian. (or What they feel goofball represents)


monty :-/

[Voxxyn]

I would agree that lfe was misserable on frankie, However I think that was the neccisary in for the story. It was not ment to be a Bash on Frankie, but ment to be a fun.

I still fail to see the "fun" in what happened to Frankie. There's a line between goofy, slapsticky fun and inexcusable maliciousness, and what Goofball did crossed it by about a million miles.

Nor was it necessary at all. They could've EASILY done this episode without being so cruel to Frankie. It was a golden premise that could've been used far more wisely than just to attack a character with a large fanbase.

[Jabberwocky]

I still fail to see the "fun" in what happened to Frankie. There's a line between goofy, slapsticky fun and inexcusable maliciousness, and what Goofball did crossed it by about a million miles.

Nor was it necessary at all. They could've EASILY done this episode without being so cruel to Frankie. It was a golden premise that could've been used far more wisely than just to attack a character with a large fanbase.That's your opinion, though. Just because you saw it as evil and wrong and malicious doesn't mean it was. If I'm "completely trivializing" what happened, you're blowing it way out of proportion. Some people found it funny, some people didn't, there are always a few bombs in a series, but I don't understand how it was an "attack" on Frankie.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

That's your opinion, though. Just because you saw it as evil and wrong and malicious doesn't mean it was. If I'm "completely trivializing" what happened, you're blowing it way out of proportion. Some people found it funny, some people didn't, there are always a few bombs in a series, but I don't understand how it was an "attack" on Frankie.

Watch the episode again and tell me if you see ANY positive outcome for ANY situation Frankie entered in that episode.

Also Frankie wasn't attacked, she was freaking Pearl Harbored in that episode.

[Voxxyn]

There are completely different kinds of "bombs". Any given television series will have episodes that aren't up to par with it's usual standards of quality, that's inevitable. And then there are episodes that are disliked not because of any gap in technical quality, but because they do things that seem to only be there to deliberately shock and anger fans.

The problem with IHFUMEUP wasn't that it was 'not as funny' as usual--it's that it was INDEED evil, wrong and malicious.

[montitech]

The problem with IHFUMEUP wasn't that it was 'not as funny' as usual--it's that it was INDEED evil, wrong and malicious.

Your stating your opinion as though it was a Universal Truth.

I enjoyed watching this episode. I thought goofball was fun.
I do not think I am Evil or malicious for liking it but if what you said is a universal truth I must be at least Wrong.
I know frankie was treated unfair, However I am sure the writers were not intenially trying to offend Frankie Fans but were trying to create a fun story.

Also it is not the first time they treated a lead character in that manner. look at how BLoo was treated in the Benndy episode. same type of situation, but directed to bloo, and bendy was definitly a Bad Egg, While GoofBall was just Misunderstood because he was from a different country.

Monty :-/

[Cassini90125]

Also it is not the first time they treated a lead character in that manner. look at how BLoo was treated in the Benndy episode. same type of situation, but directed to bloo, and bendy was definitly a Bad Egg, While GoofBall was just Misunderstood because he was from a different country.

Monty :-/

I hardly think it was the same type of situation. Bendy's antics got everyone in trouble; Bloo caught additional flak because he went after Bendy. Goofball's antics were directed solely at Frankie. Bendy was certainly malicious, but Goofball was clearly worse, because his behaviour was born of total self-involvement, and a complete inability to either see or care who he was hurting. Bloo also didn't have to suffer the way Frankie did, and didn't have a "Disney-esque" scene of scrubbing the floors. Bloo also got some justice at the end, and Bendy was exposed as the real troublemaker; there was no such justice for Frankie. And finally, being from another country is meaningless; I can think of many real-world examples that were just plain evil, not "misunderstood".

I don't think you are a bad person for enjoying the episode, but I cannot understand why you, or anyone, would enjoy it.

[Medikor]

I didan't really interpret Goofballs actions as targeted directly at Frankie in a malicouss way but more like she let him get to her because she didan't believe him. I hope that made sence.

[montitech]

... but Goofball was clearly worse, because his behaviour was born of total self-involvement, and a complete inability to either see or care who he was hurting.

I guess this is where we disagree, (I am not trying to discredit your comments , I agree with most of them)

However, I think Bendy's behavour was worst. and I still see a parellel between Frankie/Goofball and Bloo/Bendy. yes I would agree goofball was self-involved and very short-sighted. goofball has no concept of consequences. hence how he became lost in the begining. I think this episode was to to focus on Goofballs antics, and not to intentially hurt frankie Fans.

So I guess you could Understand why I like this episode (since I also liked the bendy episode and I see a parellel) even though many people may not agree woth me. .

before reading this thread I actually never even thought about the suffering frankie endoured during this episode; I think she is freaquently taken advantage of in many episodes. So with this episode I was focused on wanting to see what goofball would do next. I was also focused on: how was frankie going to uncover this "Imposter"? I thought it was hysterical at the end when Goofballs nose was uncovered. and then his family showed up.

I wish I could spell:'(
monty :-/

[Voxxyn]

I think she is freaquently taken advantage of in many episodes.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM. It was viciously cruel for the writers to put a character that is already very sympathetic and underappreciated in such a one-sided no-win situation.

You're not evil if you liked the episode... but what happened to Frankie WAS and STILL IS very evil and malicious. Just saying that the writers "didn't try to offend Frankie fans" is useless, because I am nonetheless still VERY hurt and upset.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Okay...okay everyone take a breather for a second. I think the point Vox is trying to make is that even if Goofball was not as intentionally evil by nature like Bendy was, the actions that Goofball took and directed towards Frankie where in fact just as evil.

Possibly more so. Why? Because the difference here is we know Bendy is an ass, his whole episode and family and "clues" are to reveal he's bad to the bone and nothing will change that. He does what he does to intentionally hurt and annoy others.

Goofball however is self absorbed and not only did he not even consider what he was doing to Frankie, but he didn't even stop either. He purposely used her as a door matt and his laid back view on life made him seem completely careless to any amount of human suffering Frankie was enduring.

I also want to go on record here and state clearly that it HAS been done, there HAVE been episodes of TV shows that purposely and literally bash the living hell out of a certain character. Being a TV nut, I know this happens, I can name 5 shows right off the top of my head that did this besides Fosters:

Pokemon

Ben 10

Batman Beyond

Tale Spin

Extreme Ghostbusters

I know plenty more and I assure you, TV episodes can easily make or break a character. Certain episodes are designed to make everything go virtually wrong for the targeted character. Verbally, physically, mentally, emotionally, everyway possible. So it's not that hard to believe that it happened again.

[BabyElephant]

There are completely different kinds of "bombs". Any given television series will have episodes that aren't up to par with it's usual standards of quality, that's inevitable. And then there are episodes that are disliked not because of any gap in technical quality, but because they do things that seem to only be there to deliberately shock and anger fans.

The problem with IHFUMEUP wasn't that it was 'not as funny' as usual--it's that it was INDEED evil, wrong and malicious.

I think "evil" is a bit strong...it may be a matter of semantics, but evil to me implies things such as the Holocaust or Darfur...or on a smaller level, rape and murder. Being a completely insensitive, selfish jerk doesn't reach anywhere near that level.
Also, I find it very hard to believe that the episode was done "to deliberately shock and anger fans". First of all, while I certainly don't know anyone who works on the show personally, from everything I've ever heard or read, Lauren, Craig et al are great people who would never intentionally hurt anyone's feelings. But even supposing that there were someone on Foster's with that kind of sadistic streak, I still don't think an episode would ever get on the air that was intentionally designed to be hurtful. The people involved with Foster's (the production company, CN, etc.) want to make money, after all, and purposefully upsetting their fan base isn't going to do that...just the opposite, in fact, since it might cause people to stop watching. Just from a strictly business standpoint, it wouldn't make sense. Now I like Frankie a lot, but I won't pretend to understand the depths of feeling this episode brings out, even after all this time. And of course, whatever someone feels about Goofball or the episode as a whole is completely legitimate. Still, given the amount of true evil that exists in the world, maybe some other word could be used. :mfoster:

[BlooCheese]

Also, I find it very hard to believe that the episode was done "to deliberately shock and anger fans". First of all, while I certainly don't know anyone who works on the show personally, from everything I've ever heard or read, Lauren, Craig et al are great people who would never intentionally hurt anyone's feelings. But even supposing that there were someone on Foster's with that kind of sadistic streak, I still don't think an episode would ever get on the air that was intentionally designed to be hurtful. The people involved with Foster's (the production company, CN, etc.) want to make money, after all, and purposefully upsetting their fan base isn't going to do that...just the opposite, in fact, since it might cause people to stop watching. Just from a strictly business standpoint, it wouldn't make sense. Now I like Frankie a lot, but I won't pretend to understand the depths of feeling this episode brings out, even after all this time. And of course, whatever someone feels about Goofball or the episode as a whole is completely legitimate. Still, given the amount of true evil that exists in the world, maybe some other word could be used. :mfoster:

I find myself agreeing with BabyElephant.
Sorry, but I think that saying the Foster's crew knowingly, intentionally, and purposefully made IHFMP to hurt Frankie in the most evil, malicious, and cruel way possible is discrediting them. Yes, I do agree that Goofball's actions were seriously wrong towards Frankie. And here, "wrong" is not even a strong-enough word to describe what horrible misfortunes he caused her. But saying that Craig and company purposely went out of their way to bash Frankie--I find that unfair and harsh. I think the Foster's crew are great people who work really hard to try and please their fans.

[Voxxyn]

I do appreciate the hard work that goes into the series. I'm not lashing out like this because I thought IHFUMEUP was a severe gap in technical quality.

I'm lashing out because as a Frankie fan, it was just upsetting, depressing and borderline traumatic to watch her go through all of that. They wasted their hard work and talent on an episode that, whether or not that was their true motive, was just plain CRUEL and MALICIOUS towards Frankie and felt like a huge slap in the face to her fans. How is that, as a fan, supposed to "please" me? Because I love Frankie and hate episodes of ANY show that basically devote themselves to destroying a character from start-to-finish, I don't matter?

[BlooCheese]

Of course you matter. Never did I say that you didn't matter. And the creation of a hurtful episode to Frankie fans does NOT mean you don't matter either. I think the Foster's crew tried to come up with a humorous Frankie-centered ep, but their plan totally backfired. Instead of producing laughs, IFUMEUP produced much trauma, sorrow, and anger. Because you love Frankie so entirely, you make a huge difference. We know that Frankie is already underappreciated, and she doesn't get a lot of chances to shine, so being supportive of her from beginning to end, through thick and thin makes you important. I never said you didn't matter.
And I never said IFUMEUP had to please you. I meant that overall, the crew tried to make their episodes, in general, pleasing to their fans. It seemed to me as if some people thought that Craig and co. purposefully and intentionally wanted to bash Frankie, and I found that unfair.

[BabyElephant]

Of course you matter. Never did I say that you didn't matter. And the creation of a hurtful episode to Frankie fans does NOT mean you don't matter either. I think the Foster's crew tried to come up with a humorous Frankie-centered ep, but their plan totally backfired. Instead of producing laughs, IFUMEUP produced much trauma, sorrow, and anger. Because you love Frankie so entirely, you make a huge difference. We know that Frankie is already underappreciated, and she doesn't get a lot of chances to shine, so being supportive of her from beginning to end, through thick and thin makes you important. I never said you didn't matter.
And I never said IFUMEUP had to please you. I meant that overall, the crew tried to make their episodes, in general, pleasing to their fans. It seemed to me as if some people thought that Craig and co. purposefully and intentionally wanted to bash Frankie, and I found that unfair.

Exactly. I think that really the worst that can be said of everyone who worked on this episode is that they made a mistake. Yes, it was a mistake that hurt a lot of people, and I would never presume to tell them they shouldn't feel that way. But I can't believe that there was any malicious intent to any of it. ;)

[Cassini90125]

Exactly. I think that really the worst that can be said of everyone who worked on this episode is that they made a mistake. Yes, it was a mistake that hurt a lot of people, and I would never presume to tell them they shouldn't feel that way. But I can't believe that there was any malicious intent to any of it. ;)

Nor can I. They miscalculated how strongly people would react, nothing more. I cannot and will not believe that they deliberately set out to hurt anybody, character or fan.

[duck2k]

Okay I have listened quietly long enough (kind of like the new manager checking out how things are run in the office before he/she makes changes). Was there malicious intent? Absolutely. Was Goofball out to be cruel to Frankie? Without a doubt. I (and a few million others) love Frankie very much, and to see her get hurt this way is unthinkable. Now here is what I want to point out. Was Goofball evil? Absolutely NOT! Evil people have no concsience. Goofball had at least the enough decency to show his gratitude to Frankie at the end ("You fed me, you made sure my clothes were clean..." or words to that effect). I think an evil person would never have shown even a drop of gratitude. Is it an episode I can do without? Unquestionably! There is my 2 cents, now I will go back into my corner and listen some more...:herriman:

[Voxxyn]

Alright then. It was a miscalculation.

It's still a HURTFUL, VICIOUS and TRAUMATIC miscalculation, and it still makes me deeply upset.

[Invader Bloo]

Yeah but Tardball's still a jerk, he was careless & mean.

[Voxxyn]

I don't want to disrespect any of the crew... but, honestly--did they really show any respect or consideration for the feelings of Frankie's fans by making the episode the way they did? Because I myself still feel disrespected and hurt.

[BlooCheese]

I don't think they fully realized how damaging and hurtful IHFUMEUP would be while they were creating it. They probably regret it now, I hope.

[montitech]

I think we should do a poll as to how people rate the goofball episode,

but I am a bit shy on time rigt now to figure out how to start a poll.

Monty :-/

ps. I still like the episode.
[in wilt voice] is thats OK. :D

[Cassini90125]

I'll add it. Standard letter-grade poll, A-F; sound good?

Edit - Okay, it's added. A little gasoline for the fire, I suspect, but we'll see what happens. Let's try to keep it civil in here, m'kay?

[montitech]

Thanks Cassini90125,

I think to keep things civil it may be best to NOT declare what one rates the episode. After a few more people rate the episode we will all be able to see how the episode ranks up to peoples taste.

Monty :-/

[Invader Bloo]

Someone actually gave it an A. :X
The episode was horrid! Notghing funny! It was a disgrace, something Disney Channel would show! :frankiemad:

I rated it an F-. Worst episode ever.

[montitech]

I must admit, I like goofball and was one of the A's.

However I figure the Staff in charge of programming at CN must also like it since they usually show it a few times a month. AND it was in the marathon earlier today....


Monty :-/

[Invader Bloo]

Eh, I say every month.:X
None a year is fine, show "Seeing Red" instead, I haven't seen that one in ages.

[Voxxyn]

...it was on the marathon? A "best of" marathon?!? What kind of twisted joke is that?

IHFUMEUP should be permanently banned from ever officially airing again. That's how I honestly feel. The fact it's still frequently aired while other, infinitely superior Foster's episodes have been neglected makes me SICK. :'(

[Invader Bloo]

I don't think it was a "best-of" marathon, "Bus the Two of Us" didn't air. Though it did have a ton of great epsiodes. Yeah the episode should neverbe aired again like some R&S episodes of course the banned R&S episodes were good ones.:jk:

[Mr. Marshmallow]

IHFUMEUP should be permanently banned from ever officially airing again. That's how I honestly feel. The fact it's still frequently aired while other, infinitely superior Foster's episodes have been neglected makes me SICK. :'(

As much as I do dislike Frankie's treatment in that episode, I just can't find it fair in my own weird way to ban the episode FOREVER. Same with "Only have surprise for you" I absolutely HATED HATED HATED how Mac was treated in that episode.

And I do NOT watch it, I'll skip channels gladly just to miss it. But still, I can't find it in my heart to say I want it banned from TV airwaves for life. Just the way I am. I do however agree very much so that certain episodes of Foster's need to be aired more so then the ones that are being repeated now.

Like Berry's episode, Setting a president, Frankie my dear, seeing red, and camp keep a good mac down.

[Invader Bloo]

CKAGMD airs semi-good, the rest you mentioned air like once every 5 months. :(

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah okay, the few times I've been able to catch Foster's on TV (no cable) it was IHFUMEUP once, and then literally the rest of the time WTAWTAW/EKIB. How unlucky.

[Invader Bloo]

The 3 worst episodes.:(
Bad luck....

[BlooCheese]

I don't really understand this.
I'm a fan of Mac's, but I Only Have a Surprise for You didn't really bother me that much. In fact, it's one of my favorite episodes. But on the other hand, I am not okay with Imposter's Home, although I could never consider myself as a Frankie fan on the same level of fandom as Cassini and Voxxyn and Mr. Marshmallow and Medikor. (I know there are others, but please forgive me. Your names have slipped my mind momentarily.) Does that make sense? I thought not.

[Voxxyn]

Alright then. The episodes Mr. M mentioned should be aired more often, while IHFUMEUP and the other "let's bash so-and-so!" episodes of the series should be relegated to once every few months.

"Frankie My Dear" and "Setting A President" getting little airtime is ESPECIALLY hurtful to me. But I guess Cartoon Network hates the idea of Frankie being portrayed in a positive light, which is what these episodes do... while IHFUMEUP has a very "Foster's 5 rocks, Frankie sucks!" vibe that seems to correspond perfectly with CN's "kids rule and adults drool" mentality. :(

[Invader Bloo]

IOHASFY airs semi-alot, along the sam elevel as Imposters.
Yeah, the whole kids rule thing is only seen in KND, I mean Fred Fredburger is an adult & he's one of the stars of CN. Plus FMD & SAP are pretty Bloo filled. Yeah, SAP & FMD never air, I'm so sick of it. But they air the crap episodes ALL the times. I just don't get it.:'(

[Jabberwocky]

That doesn't make much sense. I don't understand why Frankie My Dear wouldn't be aired a lot. The Orlando Bloo scene is one of the funniest things ever.

I think someone should tell cartoon network Goofball is not even minutely worthy of a too-hoo-hoo once everybody's seen the episode five hundred times.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

This bothers me almost as much as Goofball in general bothers me. Foster's show is loved by ADULTS too, it's not a sin to be past the age of 15 and love this show you know? I'm 22 and while I am a bit nervous about watching it when my 18 year old brother is around, I still totally love this show.

I think it's stupid adults are being zeroed out just because CN is designed for kids. If they had any brains they'd realize that teens and adults are just as good a market to rank in as any other market. They canned "Teen Titans" and "JL: Unlimited" 2 superb adult/teen aimed shows that were amazingly good.

Foster's appeals to adults and toons and like I said about if they ever had a "get drawn into Foster's" contest, odds are some 9 year old would get in. That's bull $#@! I'm just a big a fan as any other 10 year old and my age shouldn't matter a dam thing. Same with those episodes, why single them out so carelessly?

There are alot better episodes then rewatching "Cuckoo for coco cards" for the billionth time. I had to find "Berry Scary" and "Camp keep a good Mac down" on youtube.com because CN can't find the time to air them.

[billytheskink]

I think it's stupid adults are being zeroed out just because CN is designed for kids. If they had any brains they'd realize that teens and adults are just as good a market to rank in as any other market.

It's not Cartoon Network you have to convince, it's the companies that advertise on the channel.

Adults are zeroed out because kid-oriented advertisers want to be featured on cartoons that are popular with kids.

It's unfortunate at times, but without those advertisers we don't have any CN in the first place, we don't have any Foster's.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

That doesn't change the fact that zeroing older audience members is a down right crummy and scummy thing to do. Their work is still appreciated, it's their underlined intention that still bugs me.

The way I see it, fans are fans. Doesn't matter who you target, if you really want your show to get noticed and remain popular, I suggest taking care of EVERY fan you get, regardless of age or anything else.

[BabyElephant]

That doesn't change the fact that zeroing older audience members is a down right crummy and scummy thing to do. Their work is still appreciated, it's their underlined intention that still bugs me.

The way I see it, fans are fans. Doesn't matter who you target, if you really want your show to get noticed and remain popular, I suggest taking care of EVERY fan you get, regardless of age or anything else.

Fans are fans, but the same doesn't apply to advertising dollars. TV networks charge for advertising minutes based on how desirable their perceived demographic is. Kids tend to have a lot of disposable income, and a big say in what their parents buy (cereal, toys, etc.) As a result, advertisers are willing to pay more to air commercials geared toward children. This, of course, makes CN very happy. Of course they want to keep older fans happy too, but they probably feel that we'll keep watching the shows we love regardless. Corporate marketing be a cruel mistress. :(

[billytheskink]

it's a noble thought, Mr. M.

but it has proven to be a poor marketing strategy, especially in these days of seriously fragmented television ratings. Cable advertisers want the networks to deliver narrow target market segments.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

It may not be the best marketing strategy in the world, but that doesn't change the fact that this show impacts older people like myself just as greatly as it does kids. It can be the down right worst strategy in the world for all I care, still doesn't change the fact that fans matter.

Just because you target a certain age doesn't always mean you will get that age, nor does it mean you won't get people who love the show who are different from the targeted age. I'm not saying change everything for the sake of mature fans in terms of advertising.

All I am saying is I think us older fans should be taken at least somewhat into consideration.

[duck2k]

Just an observation. I do believe the animators have the same claim as the animators of the past (i.e. WB toons, MGM, Disney, etc.): "They were/are not made for kids, or adults - they were made for us!" This is regardless of marketing, or fan base.:frankiesmile:

[BabyElephant]

It may not be the best marketing strategy in the world, but that doesn't change the fact that this show impacts older people like myself just as greatly as it does kids. It can be the down right worst strategy in the world for all I care, still doesn't change the fact that fans matter.

Just because you target a certain age doesn't always mean you will get that age, nor does it mean you won't get people who love the show who are different from the targeted age. I'm not saying change everything for the sake of mature fans in terms of advertising.

All I am saying is I think us older fans should be taken at least somewhat into consideration.

I couldn't agree more, actually, but unfortunately as we all know, money talks. The only thing I can think of that might even have a chance of changing things would be a massive letter writing campaign. If CN sees their profit margin as being in any way threatened, they might change their tune. Sadly, though, given the realities of modern American business, that's far from a given. :terrence:

[duck2k]

I couldn't agree more, actually, but unfortunately as we all know, money talks. The only thing I can think of that might even have a chance of changing things would be a massive letter writing campaign. If CN sees their profit margin as being in any way threatened, they might change their tune. Sadly, though, given the realities of modern American business, that's far from a given. :terrence:

Now hold on thar! I have CN stock; you start that letter writing thing my earnings will further drop!;)

[BabyElephant]

Now hold on thar! I have CN stock; you start that letter writing thing my earnings will further drop!;)

Ha ha, we have somebody on the inside!!! Well, not really, but still more inside than I am (which is saying absolutely nothing). Do you get a cool cartoon stock certificate when you buy CN stock, the way you do (or at least used to) with Disney stock? Cause if so, I might have to pick up a few shares. :cheesegrin:

[billytheskink]

It may not be the best marketing strategy in the world, but that doesn't change the fact that this show impacts older people like myself just as greatly as it does kids. It can be the down right worst strategy in the world for all I care, still doesn't change the fact that fans matter.

Just because you target a certain age doesn't always mean you will get that age, nor does it mean you won't get people who love the show who are different from the targeted age. I'm not saying change everything for the sake of mature fans in terms of advertising.

All I am saying is I think us older fans should be taken at least somewhat into consideration.
I'd think that Cartoon Network takes older fans into consideration, but not at the expense of younger fans.

Kids are fans too, they deserve to see their favorite shows just as much as us older folks.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

I'd think that Cartoon Network takes older fans into consideration, but not at the expense of younger fans.

Kids are fans too, they deserve to see their favorite shows just as much as us older folks.

I don't want them to "expense" anyone. But as long as they ARE taking adults into consideration and not just totally focusing 100% on kids, I'll feel happy.

I'm not saying mature teens/adults should replace kids, but they should be heard and not ignored.